Alradco Intercooler review!

[alradco]

For those that wanted to see, here's our black powder coated IC. Looks awesome in my opinion.
The super chrome powder should be done late tonight so I'll post pics of it tomorrow.

 

[buck russell]

Looks great.

How does the powder effect the cooling dynamics? I've been told to never powdercoat an IC core.

 

[tbsimmons]

Looks great.

How does the powder effect the cooling dynamics? I've been told to never powdercoat an IC core.

I was told thae same when I was building a car. Dont paint or powder coat anything that rejects heat. Paint and powder coat things you want to keep heat in.

 

[buck russell]

I was told thae same when I was building a car. Dont paint or powder coat anything that rejects heat. Paint and powder coat things you want to keep heat in.

Precisely!

 

[alradco]

Looks great.

How does the powder effect the cooling dynamics? I've been told to never powdercoat an IC core.

I was told thae same when I was building a car. Dont paint or powder coat anything that rejects heat. Paint and powder coat things you want to keep heat in.

We've been doing it for years, the affect is minimal and virtually unmeasurable is some applications. I'm surprised you guys haven't seen other intercoolers and radiators in black or with giant logos on them, they're quite common.

Of course before offering the black option on our site we'll test this one and make sure everything is as expected. Also this is an OPTION. We have our 6.4 IC available in standard finish for those that prefer it. Some people don't want a shiny IC, they want it black like the stock one.

 

[tbsimmons]

I have seen black painted end tanks on aftermarket items that reject heat but not powder coating and nothing on the actual heat transfer media, core in this case. If you are right then great, good luck, just never witnessed it or seen it.
Just from my experience with items and thinking about. The more material or substance you put on something it is going to slow down the heat transfer, be it conductive or convective transfer more so on the conductive. Now it might not be a big difference for most trucks because the powder coat is going to be the same temp as outside (Lets just assume that) which would be the same as the air hitting the core. Will be a little difference in Delta T but I bet not a lot on grocery getters. What I think will make a difference is when the trucks are in hotter weather, sitting or being really worked.
This was the same questions and statements I had on temps going up while the trucks are worked with just an intercooler as too if I was going to buy one now or wait till mine starts to leak. I never really got an answer.
When the delta T is greater across the intercooler, which if it is removing more heat than a stock one, will be greater, then the Delta T across the radiator has to go down, which would mean that the radiator cant remove as much heat as it did with the stock intercooler.

 

[buck russell]

We've been doing it for years, the affect is minimal and virtually unmeasurable is some applications. I'm surprised you guys haven't seen other intercoolers and radiators in black or with giant logos on them, they're quite common.

Of course before offering the black option on our site we'll test this one and make sure everything is as expected. Also this is an OPTION. We have our 6.4 IC available in standard finish for those that prefer it. Some people don't want a shiny IC, they want it black like the stock one.

Actually, coating any metal where the goal is to dissipate heat will hurt the cooling capability. While some say that powdercoating doesn't detract much, it would be far superior and beneficial to leave the core raw. Some say anodizing is a better option, but they're wrong. While anodizing is thinner than powder, it's still going to hurt the cooling capability.

Through my searching of the web, I found swaintech and they offer a heat dissipating coating called BBE. If you're going to coat it at all, that's the stuff to use as it both coats it and helps it to dissipate heat. While I do love the black core, I definitely wouldn't want to cut down the effectiveness of the intercooler.

 

[GotStroke]

I understand the theory above and not talking about the powdercoating but the issue with a more efficient IC causing higher EOT and ECT temps. My theory is this, which is backed by my results above. In which I had zero noticeable change in either temps.

Where as yes the air passing through the IC at the hot side will be hotter due to the efficiency of the IC but at some point, the exact point I'm not sure, the air becomes cooler than what the factory IC is capable of which results in cooler than normal air passing thorough the IC and going through the Rad. Resulting in a greater cooling affect than possible with the factory IC counteracting the initial hotter air passing through the IC which is why I saw no change.

Edit: Just my two pennies, makes sense in my noodle and could possibly explains my results.

 

[tbsimmons]

Work your truck man, they will be higher than stock. But you are not stock (radiator or charger) so your comparison is already voided by the fact the intercooler is already helped by more air of the chargers not outside the normal range and radiator being more efficient. Either way if you worked the truck compared to stock I still bet they would be higher. Just normal driving or towing my car trailer I cant tell a difference, but throw 18000# that is 13.5' high up a long 7+% grade. That is being worked. See below by what I mean. Plus you having humidity and me not, helps in the exchange of heat. Think of spraying your radiator with water, it will cool off much quicker than with dry air.

You are correct some, but a little off.
I think you are trying to combine the two exchanges of heat, the charged inside and the cooling medium outside. The outside no matter what occurs will always have a higher temp difference across it if a heat exchanger is more efficient, it is part of Thermo and Heat and Mass Transfer, just trust me on this one. If you want proof I can name a few books to read.
When you have a heat exchanger, you need a temp difference to exchange heat.
The greater the temp difference you can get the higher the efficiency of the heat exchanger. Now if you have a higher efficiency exchanger, and have them stacked, like our trucks, the back one the temp difference across it cant be as high as it was with a not so efficient exchanger in front.
The more efficient intercooler is only really beneficial when working the truck, sitting, unloaded, etc. the stock one is more than sufficient. If you hooked up temp sensors you would see what I am talking about. You can only remove so much heat and no exchanger is going to be 100%, as in charged air being the same temp as the cooling medium, outside air in this case.

I am just going to throw some numbers out, not tested numbers just for explanation.
Say 100 degrees outside air.
Stock example
Hot side into the intercooler is say 200 degrees.
Cold Side out of the intercooler is 150 degrees.

The air over the intercooler goes from 100 to 120.
You are trying to cool the radiator with 120 degree air, not 100.

Aftermarket
Hot side into the intercooler is say 200 degrees.
Cold Side out of the intercooler is 120 degrees.

The air over the intercooler goes from 100 to 150.
You are trying to cool the radiator with 150 degree air, not 120 like the stock one.


With the more efficient radiator, it can only help so much, what the thermostats start to open which I think one is at 190, my truck if I keep the RPM's down will run 194 ECT and 198 EOT range.

 

[GotStroke]

For someone who I guess reads a lot obviously hasn't read the previous posts....

1. I do work my truck

I'll stop here....

2. As smart as you type to be, you should also understand that the temperature differential from one side of the "heat exchanger" will also be affected due to the efficiency of said "heat exchanger." Resulting in a hotter initial temp and cooler final temp. I drink beer warmer than the outlet feels when I pull over to get fuel.... :toast:

3. My truck had the stock rad in the test.

4. I also travel with my work, humidity was not a factor in the test.

5. Bigger chargers don't help they often hurt, the process of heat transfer can only happen so fast and when moving a larger volume faster, the larger and more efficient the "heat exchanger", ok enough, IC has to be. If anything my temps should be higher because I'm moving way way more air than you are.

If anything it sounds like the IC in question was not designed properly, not accounting for said change and was more focused on heat exchange vs flow through the IC which results and a magnified result of what you claim should happen.

Its also funny how you request that I work my truck and tow 13.5' tall 18K trailer, that rig in the first portrait above is 13' 2" tall 108.5" wide 42'3" long level... the gross weight is 18k and I'm loaded way past that. PLUS the lift and tires, probably over 13'5" but I'm not because that would be illegal....

From a 0-60 over 3/8 mile up 4.2* grade I maxed at 1030 because of driver error allowing it to shift into OD... Once back in the proper gear I could easily maintain 780-830. Granted not 7* but, I'd take a 7* grade vs a 0-60.

So.... I don't think I can load it much more minus getting just ignorant.

 

[GotStroke]

There are way way WAY to many variables to test a product and satisfy everyone. Take what's stated and use that to your liking.

From my results on my truck I would gladly swap for a powder coated version.

I don't care what a book computer, says. The truth Is they are NEVER correct just close. The theory is correct in that retrospect but there are other effects in play, but bottom line I'm not seeing an increase....

The concern was stated and I answered it, lets not fill this post with nonsense and waste everyone's time more than we have.

 

[B585Ford]

The results from Gotstroke seem to be pretty clear. I believe the reason why the real world results dispute the theoretical results from TB are as mentioned above...too many variables. For example, The volume of air and rate of air flow through the IC to the radiator will also influence the radiator's cooling capacity so even if the temps were hotter reaching the radiator (which should not be assumed because a more efficient IC could lower EGTs without raising hot side temps), the radiator may still have the same cooling capacity because the volume of air and rate of air flow to the radiator are greater.

 

[madman1234509]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1QL9veQaNg

 

[tbsimmons]

I never once said that the intercooler was not designed or didn’t work. I have one from No Limit and love it, but my question has and will be the same, on a stock radiator truck with stock chargers does any ones temps increase some?

For someone who I guess reads a lot obviously hasn't read the previous posts....

1. I do work my truck

I'll stop here....

2. As smart as you type to be, you should also understand that the temperature differential from one side of the "heat exchanger" will also be affected due to the efficiency of said "heat exchanger." Resulting in a hotter initial temp and cooler final temp. I drink beer warmer than the outlet feels when I pull over to get fuel....

Read yes, but also a little bit of actual car building along with a degree in a related field. Smart as I type, looks like you didn’t comprehend what I typed, I said if you have a more efficient heat exchanger the cooling medium will have to increase in temp. It is heat and mass transfer cant argue that one.

3. My truck had the stock rad in the test.

4. I also travel with my work, humidity was not a factor in the test.

Like I said in my above post the more humid, the better the cooling, like I also stated, cooling a truck radiator with water.

5. Bigger chargers don't help they often hurt, the process of heat transfer can only happen so fast and when moving a larger volume faster, the larger and more efficient the "heat exchanger", ok enough, IC has to be. If anything my temps should be higher because I'm moving way way more air than you are.

You ware going to have to explain this one. Unless over sized a larger charger is going to be in the most efficient area when used, so less heat produced and less work the intercooler has to do. That is why a lot of people with these trucks see an EGT drop with an Atmosphere only. More efficient.

If anything it sounds like the IC in question was not designed properly, not accounting for said change and was more focused on heat exchange vs flow through the IC which results and a magnified result of what you claim should happen.

I never said that quit assuming stuff man. Please read what I posted.
Claim no, seen on my truck yes. So you are saying that that my No Limit is defective? That would be the assumption. No it isn’t works great, question still remains, is my truck the only one with an aftermarket intercooler the the temps increased some?

Its also funny how you request that I work my truck and tow 13.5' tall 18K trailer, that rig in the first portrait above is 13' 2" tall 108.5" wide 42'3" long level... the gross weight is 18k and I'm loaded way past that. PLUS the lift and tires, probably over 13'5" but I'm not because that would be illegal....

From a 0-60 over 3/8 mile up 4.2* grade I maxed at 1030 because of driver error allowing it to shift into OD... Once back in the proper gear I could easily maintain 780-830. Granted not 7* but, I'd take a 7* grade vs a 0-60.

So.... I don't think I can load it much more minus getting just ignorant.

I never read that I guess I don’t read as much as you assume I do. Thanks for taking shots man, didn’t know this was getting personal for you. Great on your truck. I guess the chargers and such were just for looks not for the use of the truck. Right on keep Trucking.

 

[Stroked777]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1QL9veQaNg

And he just ended an argument with only using a link!

 

[tbsimmons]

The results from Gotstroke seem to be pretty clear. I believe the reason why the real world results dispute the theoretical results from TB are as mentioned above...too many variables. For example, The volume of air and rate of air flow through the IC to the radiator will also influence the radiator's cooling capacity so even if the temps were hotter reaching the radiator (which should not be assumed because a more efficient IC could lower EGTs without raising hot side temps), the radiator may still have the same cooling capacity because the volume of air and rate of air flow to the radiator are greater.

You are right. It happens in both worlds. I just have the same question tough, on a stock charger truck does the temps increase.
It is not theory, as stated numerous times I have a No Limit Intercooler.
The reason that the air flkow matters is also on the temp out of the chargers, which for not huge ones, will be less than stock when in boost. Reason that an atmosphere cools the trucks off. So the heat rejected is not as much either, temp is closer to the cooling medium and the radiator is getting a cooler air to reject heat. Theory still stands.
If I am understanding correctly:

The volume of air and rate of air flow through the IC to the radiator will also influence the radiator's cooling capacity so even if the temps were hotter reaching the radiator (which should not be assumed because a more efficient IC could lower EGTs without raising hot side temps), the radiator may still have the same cooling capacity because the volume of air and rate of air flow to the radiator are greater.

You are correct on volume. But you have to have a Temp difference. Even with volume if the temp difference is not high the exchange of heat will be low. The more efficient Intercooler can only be more efficient if it is removing more heat thus putting more heat into the flowing air over the intercooler. In heat exchangers it is 4 things, at alead for our trucks.
Hot side temp in, cold side temp out.
Cooling air temp in, Cooling air temp out.
If you dont have to cool the hot side as much, as in the incoming air temp is not high, then the cooling air temp out wont be as high.

Again I never said the aftermarket intercoolers dont work, just had questions.

 

[tbsimmons]

And he just ended an argument with only using a link!

Interesting. I have to think about the reason for that one. Seems strange to me.

 

[Stroked777]

yea that much of a change really surprised me, i definitely see it as a benefit, like they said at the track it wont heat sock the intercooler

 

[tbsimmons]

I thought about it. It is called a Black Body or something if I remember right from school been a few years.
It has to do with Emissivity. I have not looked it up in a while but I think it is around room temp also.
The reason for a big difference is the difference between chrome or polish and a satin finish black in this case. Polished or chrome surfaces suck ass for heat transfer.

Edit:
Found links.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_body
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emissivity

 

[GotStroke]

When you say "If you worked your truck" that makes it pretty personal.

Not saying anyone's product is defective or not effective.

As me and B585 have both mentioned there are so so many variables to name a few other than the ones you have stressed are rad condition, coolant condition and mixture, condition of your chargers, EGR cooler present or deleted, fan condition, fan clutch condition, shroud condition, total accessory drive health affecting fan speed, not to mention the altitude, trans condition and parasitic leech from the trans, fuel, powersteering coolers.... Final drive ratio affecting load, tires size, tire alignment condition, lift, design and functionality related to extra stress on the drivetrain..... Obviously speed, terrain, traffic, temp and more...

If you haven't you will figure out just because your numbers and theory's tell you this a true engineer physicist whatever will understand or calculate in the variables, which is often impossible and take and apply whats experienced, reported and look for other reasons for said condition instead of focusing on one idea and attacking anyone who questions it.