Annnnd BOOM goes the dynomite

4.0l sahara · Sep 9, 2012

Yes he did.

Tx_Powerstroke · Sep 9, 2012

That sucks.

V-Ref · Sep 9, 2012

Big Bore said:
I beg to differ, it has a LOT to do with tuning. That's why some live, and some don't.

You're questioning tuning based on a single data point of 30 mph....is that correct? If so...Clairvoiant isn't the word....square me away on what your "seeing"? If you'd rather PM...send it.

The reason I ask isn't to be argumentative. It's help others understand how you can determine it's a tuning problem from a forged rod motor blowing at 30 mph.

The bit I understand about tensile strength/fatigue/yield/ultimate...is that it doesn't always fail when it's "supposed to".

If you're point is that a tuner approach to ICP/PW/SOI can have a large effect on cylinder pressure....I'm in agreement with you.

It would seem that folks like Swamps having an engine dyno, or tuners that have access to cylinder pressure transducers would/have probably gained insights that SOTP/dyno tuners don't have ref tuning for engine durability. Would agree with that too?

I just don't see how given a single 30 mph data point...a tuning conclusion could be made.

OP-Whose rods for the next motor? Our are you thinking conversion/swap? Didn't mean to derail your thread.

ToMang07 · Sep 9, 2012

Slate said:
Did you have forged rods? I thought PMRs limit's were 400-425.

He has an E99...so it should be forged. :jawdrop:

OSCS · Sep 9, 2012

V-Ref said:
You're questioning tuning based on a single data point of 30 mph....is that correct? If so...Clairvoiant isn't the word....square me away on what your "seeing"? If you'd rather PM...send it.

The reason I ask isn't to be argumentative. It's help others understand how you can determine it's a tuning problem from a forged rod motor blowing at 30 mph.

The bit I understand about tensile strength/fatigue/yield/ultimate...is that it doesn't always fail when it's "supposed to".

If you're point is that a tuner approach to ICP/PW/SOI can have a large effect on cylinder pressure....I'm in agreement with you.

It would seem that folks like Swamps having an engine dyno, or tuners that have access to cylinder pressure transducers would/have probably gained insights that SOTP/dyno tuners don't have ref tuning for engine durability. Would agree with that too?

I just don't see how given a single 30 mph data point...a tuning conclusion could be made.

OP-Whose rods for the next motor? Our are you thinking conversion/swap? Didn't mean to derail your thread.

No worries I expect plenty of side discussion. Yes the motor has forged rods and to be honest i have no idea whos rods im going to go with or if i even am going to try and build another motor.

TyCorr · Sep 9, 2012

OSCS said:
No worries I expect plenty of side discussion. Yes the motor has forged rods and to be honest i have no idea whos rods im going to go with or if i even am going to try and build another motor.

toss a fr motor in, have it tuned at safe parameters, ignore your peak hp#, and watch it live.

davey99ps · Sep 9, 2012

Sucks seeing another 1 of these threads. I'm glad I picked up a 12v the other day to start getting ready for my truck. Good luck on the rebuild, I may have a motor for sale shortly

OSCS · Sep 9, 2012

TyCorr said:
toss a fr motor in, have it tuned at safe parameters, ignore your peak hp#, and watch it live.

this is what im leaning towards

Big Bore · Sep 9, 2012

V-Ref said:
If you're point is that a tuner approach to ICP/PW/SOI can have a large effect on cylinder pressure....I'm in agreement with you.

It would seem that folks like Swamps having an engine dyno, or tuners that have access to cylinder pressure transducers would/have probably gained insights that SOTP/dyno tuners don't have ref tuning for engine durability. Would agree with that too?

.

That pretty much sums it up, other than there are tuners who are able to tune safely without access to cylinder pressure and dyno equipment.

JAP · Sep 9, 2012

Just saying, tuning a truck to "live" and tuning a truck to achieve max power are two different things.

TyCorr · Sep 9, 2012

JAP said:
Just saying, tuning a truck to "live" and tuning a truck to achieve max power are two different things.

For sure! But w/o billet rods the latter is reckless, especially on a daily driver. It's too easy to.draw pw waaaaaay off the reservation and have some hot, high cylinder pressured juju going on. Especially with little nozzles, like the 100%. It's just my opinion but based on how my 100% nozzles acted compared to the 80% nozzles on the exact same.set of injectors. I'd rather have a 80% or 200%. Or have that 100% nozzle limited to about 400hp. Gets too hot, too smoky, and generally feels on the ragged edge above that with those nozzles.

liquidlounge · Sep 10, 2012

Can turbo drive pressure have anything to do with loosing a rod? I had one of the big boys in this business telling me (face to face no less) he wouldn't recommend certain turbos because of their drive pressure ratio and the harmful effects it can have on the motor and I think that windowing the block was one of those possibilities. Any comments?

OSCS · Sep 10, 2012

liquidlounge said:
Can turbo drive pressure have anything to do with loosing a rod? I had one of the big boys in this business telling me (face to face no less) he wouldn't recommend certain turbos because of their drive pressure ratio and the harmful effects it can have on the motor and I think that windowing the block was one of those possibilities. Any comments?

sure can.. but not in my case i had a wastegate which relieves DP before it becomes an issue.

PowerstrokeJunkie · Sep 10, 2012

Gay, sorry to see this Mike

Magnum PD · Sep 10, 2012

Another reason for me to spend money I don't have on billett Rods.

TARM · Sep 11, 2012

Here is my opinion:

There is tuning a truck for max power with regard paid to CP and CP curves and then there is tuning max power or not with no or little regard to it. There are those that do, those that do not and those that think they are but are not. Then there are those that do but the line is not where they think it is. Then finally there is the variation in the actual hard parts that are in the engine which in the end makes all of this above certain power levels a crap shoot. The difference in it all is how much you are putting the odds in which favor: KABoom or Living

OSCS · Sep 11, 2012

PowerstrokeJunkie said:
Gay, sorry to see this Mike

super gay..

OSCS · Sep 11, 2012

TARM said:
Here is my opinion:

There is tuning a truck for max power with regard paid to CP and CP curves and then there is tuning max power or not with no or little regard to it. There are those that do, those that do not and those that think they are but are not. Then there are those that do but the line is not where they think it is. Then finally there is the variation in the actual hard parts that are in the engine which in the end makes all of this above certain power levels a crap shoot. The difference in it all is how much you are putting the odds in which favor: KABoom or Living

well all i can say is when i get a rebuild done i will be taking a different approach on tunning. Not so concerned with hp numbers now that shes sitting in the street bled out with a hole in her :lookaround:

KBMKVIII · Sep 11, 2012

Sorry to see this bud.

CSIPSD · Sep 11, 2012

liquidlounge said:
Can turbo drive pressure have anything to do with loosing a rod? I had one of the big boys in this business telling me (face to face no less) he wouldn't recommend certain turbos because of their drive pressure ratio and the harmful effects it can have on the motor and I think that windowing the block was one of those possibilities. Any comments?

OSCS said:
sure can.. but not in my case i had a wastegate which relieves DP before it becomes an issue.

No...

2000-2700psi cylinder pressures are not effected by 70-80psi of drive pressure... Just not going to make a differance...

Tuning, EGT's, Max HP, drivablity sure... but blow a motor because of high drive pressure??? nope.