Another DT360 Dream

[gmeadows03]

Greetings to everyone. I'm a newbie to this forum, but have been searching and searching all of the forum sites looking for an in depth conversion build for a DT360 in a super duty. Ideally, I wanted to put it in a 08-10 model, but being in North Carolina, it will be too much of a pain to pass inspection without the ***. I currently have a 04 F250 shortbed, but will be stepping up to a F350 DRW to handle more towing. I am not looking for crazy numbers. Just a reliable workhorse and will want the luxury interior.

I have a bus down the road that I can get for $900. It is running with no issues. It belonged to the local YMCA, but was vandalized, so they have decided its time to upgrade to newer transportation. I have not officially verified the motor to be a 360, but I have the VIN from the bus and it matches to be a 93 International 3600. Specifically, its a Thomas Vista 3600, which from my searching, was only available with a DT 360 or 7.3 IDI from 92-94. It is definitely not the 7.3.

I know there have been a few guys over the years that have completed the swap. If you want to message me directly, or comment on here, I would love to have the information. The problem with the older builds is that I can no longer see any of the pictures. I also have not seen or read anything relating to motor mount location or if they need to be built. Building this truck has been approved by the wife, so now I just need to get a plan together, and execute. Instead of going out and spending $40-60k on a newer truck, I would rather invest my money in something that will be worth it. The 3 builds that I have through are pipewhiner, swamp, and coastal. If any of those guys would be willing to assist me, it would be greatly appreciated. And if anyone else has completed the build, please share any info that you are willing to offer.

Thanks for the help.
Gary

 

[gwunter]

Welcome. Sounds like a good build. I think that engine came with 3 possible injection pump types. It either came with a MW, A, or P series. The P series being most optimal, but a MW or A can be converted to be a P pump engine. The A also has potential and may fuel enough for your needs. But the MW most likely will not. There will be an ID tag on pump to verify, but a trained eye doesn't need a tag. Lol. What Trans are you thinking?

Also, project success rate increases atleast 90% when the wife approves.

 

[gmeadows03]

Welcome. Sounds like a good build. I think that engine came with 3 possible injection pump types. It either came with a MW, A, or P series. The P series being most optimal, but a MW or A can be converted to be a P pump engine. The A also has potential and may fuel enough for your needs. But the MW most likely will not. There will be an ID tag on pump to verify, but a trained eye doesn't need a tag. Lol. What Trans are you thinking?

Also, project success rate increases atleast 90% when the wife approves.

From what I am seeing, I would do a refresh of the motor and the few upgrades to have a reliable 400-500 hp motor...injectors, pushrods, valve springs, and turbo. It would be converted to P pump, and I have been doing some reading on the AFC Live system. Not sure if it is the real deal or not. Also, would a compound setup be overkill? I like the idea of have low end torque and building up to top end when needed. I have a fab guy that does some tremendous work that I want to convince to do some work for me. He has his own shop now but used to work for Rudy's.

As far as trans, if I end up with a 6.0 truck, then I will be using the 5R110. As much as I would love a 6 speed, the wife said to keep an automatic. She's a petite attorney that likes to show up in a big truck... haha.

 

[sootie]

From what I am seeing, I would do a refresh of the motor and the few upgrades to have a reliable 400-500 hp motor...injectors, pushrods, valve springs, and turbo. It would be converted to P pump, and I have been doing some reading on the AFC Live system. Not sure if it is the real deal or not. Also, would a compound setup be overkill? I like the idea of have low end torque and building up to top end when needed. I have a fab guy that does some tremendous work that I want to convince to do some work for me. He has his own shop now but used to work for Rudy's.

As far as trans, if I end up with a 6.0 truck, then I will be using the 5R110. As much as I would love a 6 speed, the wife said to keep an automatic. She's a petite attorney that likes to show up in a big truck... haha.

i would rethink the 5r. Absolute PITA to run with a controller. Why not run a manual flash in the pcm and do a 4r swap with a pcs

 

[gmeadows03]

i would rethink the 5r. Absolute PITA to run with a controller. Why not run a manual flash in the pcm and do a 4r swap with a pcs

I keep hearing that there is not a good/easy way to get the 5r shifting properly. I would not be opposed switching to another trans, but the question would be, what trans? Unfortunately, a manual is not an option. The wife said it has to be an auto so she can drive it.

 

[sootie]

4r100

 

[gmeadows03]

4r100

I am far beyond "green" when it comes to transmissions, but it seems like that would be a step in the wrong direction. This truck will do some towing...tractors, bobcats, other equipment on the weekends but would mainly be a daily driver. Overdrive would definitely be preferred to keep RPMs down and enjoy nice highway speeds. But I could be wrong on the capabilities of mating the 4r100 with the right gearing and tires.

 

[sootie]

the control over shift points and lockup is major as well as it will do the same thing every time. There also is plenty of aftermarket support to make it hold the torque.

 

[gmeadows03]

the control over shift points and lockup is major as well as it will do the same thing every time. There also is plenty of aftermarket support to make it hold the torque.

Ok thanks. I'll look in to it. I guess I could always look at a 7.3 truck that has the 4R100 already. I may be converting the front to look like a 2nd gen truck anyway.

 

[ja_cain]

This has been a long term dream of mine. I wan't to put one in an F450. I would most definitely go with the AFC Live setup if you have a p-pump. Seeing that it is a 93 means there is a high probability that it could have the p-pump and it might be the after cooled model too. If you want higher hp with minimal smoke, then compounds are a no brainer (in my opinion). It's so easy to do with this configuration anyway.

Good info from Gwunter and Sootie. The 4R100 with PCS is a no brainer if going the auto route. If going straight drive, then I would look into a good medium duty option if you can't source a ZF6 for cheap.

Good luck! I look forward to seeing where you take this.

 

[gmeadows03]

This has been a long term dream of mine. I wan't to put one in an F450. I would most definitely go with the AFC Live setup if you have a p-pump. Seeing that it is a 93 means there is a high probability that it could have the p-pump and it might be the after cooled model too. If you want higher hp with minimal smoke, then compounds are a no brainer (in my opinion). It's so easy to do with this configuration anyway.

Good info from Gwunter and Sootie. The 4R100 with PCS is a no brainer if going the auto route. If going straight drive, then I would look into a good medium duty option if you can't source a ZF6 for cheap.

Good luck! I look forward to seeing where you take this.

I would be down for a F450 but I think it may be a little overkill for my daily purpose. Gearing would be lower than I need. I may be wrong but I thought the 360 didn't come with a P pump. I'm not a roll coal kind of guy so minimal smoke would be preferred.

I guess I need to read up on the 4R100. I have always viewed it as a necessity to have overdrive.

 

[ja_cain]

I would be down for a F450 but I think it may be a little overkill for my daily purpose. Gearing would be lower than I need. I may be wrong but I thought the 360 didn't come with a P pump. I'm not a roll coal kind of guy so minimal smoke would be preferred.

I guess I need to read up on the 4R100. I have always viewed it as a necessity to have overdrive.

If I'm going to take the time to do this conversion, then I'm going to do it in a real truck.

The truck came with an A pump up until the early 90's and then I think they could be found with a p-pump for one to two years.

The 4r100 is an an overdrive unit. Carson offers an addapter plate or you could always throw some coin Shannons (Gwunter) way and have him make you one. Lol!

http://carson-stauffer-diesel-performance.theshoppad.com/#/product/dt360-adaptor-plate

The Afc live will give you the option of having no smoke in one setting and then all out smoke show in another. Like I said, compounds would be a no brainer for a build like this.

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[gmeadows03]

If I'm going to take the time to do this conversion, then I'm going to do it in a real truck.

The truck came with an A pump up until the early 90's and then I think they could be found with a p-pump for one to two years.

The 4r100 is an an overdrive unit. Carson offers an addapter plate or you could always throw some coin Shannons (Gwunter) way and have him make you one. Lol!

http://carson-stauffer-diesel-performance.theshoppad.com/#/product/dt360-adaptor-plate

The Afc live will give you the option of having now smoke in one setting and then all out smoke show in another. Like I said, compounds would be a no brainer for a build like this.

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Haha guess I need to step up and get a real truck to do this conversion.


I'm gonna ride over at some point this weekend and see if I can get some numbers off the motor and pump. As long as it's the dt360, for $900 I'm definitely buying it. Figured I could sell the tranny in the bus and scrap the rest. Worst case, i will make out even.

Well heck, for some reason this whole time I'm think it wasn't overdrive. My bad. I've check out the Carson adaptor and figured that's what I would end up with.

I like the concept of the Afc live, just wasn't sure if anyone has done it with the dt motor and ran in to any issues. I believe the compound setup would be the way to go.

Do you happen to know what motor mounts they have used?

 

[ja_cain]

Haha guess I need to step up and get a real truck to do this conversion.


I'm gonna ride over at some point this weekend and see if I can get some numbers off the motor and pump. As long as it's the dt360, for $900 I'm definitely buying it. Figured I could sell the tranny in the bus and scrap the rest. Worst case, i will make out even.

Well heck, for some reason this whole time I'm think it wasn't overdrive. My bad. I've check out the Carson adaptor and figured that's what I would end up with.

I like the concept of the Afc live, just wasn't sure if anyone has done it with the dt motor and ran in to any issues. I believe the compound setup would be the way to go.

Do you happen to know what motor mounts they have used?

Iirc, the mounts were home fabricated or one offs from a fabricator. I don't see why the afc live wouldn't work and be useful especially the one that has miltiple settings (I think there are multiple versions).

I have been searching for info that states that these motors came from the factory with the p-pump, but haven't seen anything concrete. If it did, then it would most likely have been offered on the 210hp configuration. I think it would also be the dta360 also.

$900 for the bus sounds like a steal if it had the 360 in it. I keep looking for one aroubd here, but have not seen a deal like that. I would be tempted to do the performance mods while in the bus as you can more easily work on it. Once you get everything the way you want it, then just swap it over. Might need to do some modifications on some of the plumbing, bit this could be minimized if you take some careful measurments on the truck you will be swapping it into.

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[gwunter]

As for motor mounts, my thoughts are like cains. They will more than likely be one offs. Get some good stong liquid filled isolators and 1/4-3/8 flat stock and start measuring and cutting. When I start a project like this an initial goal would be too keep the Trans in stock location if you can. So drop the engine in, attach the Trans and see if everything clears up front of the engine after the Trans is mounted to stock mounts. Let the engine dangle in there and measure for mounts. Is the original truck starting life as a gasser or diesel?

 

[gmeadows03]

As for motor mounts, my thoughts are like cains. They will more than likely be one offs. Get some good stong liquid filled isolators and 1/4-3/8 flat stock and start measuring and cutting. When I start a project like this an initial goal would be too keep the Trans in stock location if you can. So drop the engine in, attach the Trans and see if everything clears up front of the engine after the Trans is mounted to stock mounts. Let the engine dangle in there and measure for mounts. Is the original truck starting life as a gasser or diesel?

Good info for the mounts. I wasn't sure if anyone had anything already set in stone for the swap. As for the original truck, well that would
Be determined with what truck I can find. My favorite look is 08-10, but I would have a hard time passing NC inspection with no ***. I would prefer to have coil springs up front for a fairly more comfortable ride and steering but if I'm needing a 4r100 then I guess I'll be looking for a 7.3 truck. Maybe v10?

 

[ja_cain]

Good info for the mounts. I wasn't sure if anyone had anything already set in stone for the swap. As for the original truck, well that would
Be determined with what truck I can find. My favorite look is 08-10, but I would have a hard time passing NC inspection with no ***. I would prefer to have coil springs up front for a fairly more comfortable ride and steering but if I'm needing a 4r100 then I guess I'll be looking for a 7.3 truck. Maybe v10?

I would try and find a 6.0 truck with coil springs and then just pick up a 4r100 and pcs. That way you get the super 60 (coil springs). I think they went with this setup in 05. This is what I plan to do when I get around to my 450 project. Not sure how the emmisions aspect would play oit given you won't have a cat or egr. I always seem to have friends that will hook me up.

Btw, it's nice having guys like Gwunter on here sharing their knowledge. He pretty much has the capability to do anything. His Expedition repower is just plain awesome.


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[gmeadows03]

I would try and find a 6.0 truck with coil springs and then just pick up a 4r100 and pcs. That way you get the super 60 (coil springs). I think they went with this setup in 05. This is what I plan to do when I get around to my 450 project. Not sure how the emmisions aspect would play oit given you won't have a cat or egr. I always seem to have friends that will hook me up.

Btw, it's nice having guys like Gwunter on here sharing their knowledge. He pretty much has the capability to do anything. His Expedition repower is just plain awesome.


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No egr or cat isn't as hard to get by with. That's how my current 6.0 is. I just have been hearing that North Carolina is cracking down on the *** ******s in my area. They take your truck to a delearship and it cannot leave until the truck passes inspection. With a motor swap, I imagine it would be a PITA to get them to let me go. Easier to avoid that situation.

 

[gmeadows03]

Alright, I was able to stop by and check out the bus some more, hoping to identify as the motor as the one I need. I spent a good bit of time and was coming up unsuccessful until I went inside and lifted the inspection cover off the transmission tunnel that is next to the driver. I found the ID tags on top of the motor. They are worn out but I believe I make out the 359 displacement. I was also able to find a couple different VIN decoders calling this bus out as a DTA360. I'll post some pictures when I get home tonight. If it is, that is going to be a steal for $900!

 

[ja_cain]

Alright, I was able to stop by and check out the bus some more, hoping to identify as the motor as the one I need. I spent a good bit of time and was coming up unsuccessful until I went inside and lifted the inspection cover off the transmission tunnel that is next to the driver. I found the ID tags on top of the motor. They are worn out but I believe I make out the 359 displacement. I was also able to find a couple different VIN decoders calling this bus out as a DTA360. I'll post some pictures when I get home tonight. If it is, that is going to be a steal for $900!

Awesome! That's the one you want bud (aftercooled model and most likely has an inline pump). $900 is a steal. Post up some pics when you get them. Specifically of the injection pump.