Any feedback on cncfab stage2 hpop?

[ja_cain]

Yes, 250/200's will throw low ICP code.

The only single pump I've ran that can actually hold up to 300cc hybrids is the Stealth SRP 1.1, assuming you have a good one. Anything else, your going to need twins of some sort. Or one of the billet housing pumps Gary made if you can actually get ahold of one.

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I keep meaning to give you a call and talk to you about this SRP pump I have. Would you be willing to check it out and give me your opinion on the state of it?

 

[Chris2590]

I’m not sure exactly what they do but it’s a 20 degree pump compared to a 15 or 17 degree pump. They definitely did something right.


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[ja_cain]

I would still like to see that data Jim eluded to earlier on the a codes vs hybrids fuel output. I suspect it won't be as significant as some say due to restriction at the poppet. This may only be a factor when going above a 100% over nozzle though. Some 150% over nozzles would be interesting.

 

[ja_cain]

I’m not sure exactly what they do but it’s a 20 degree pump compared to a 15 or 17 degree pump. They definitely did something right.


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I was talking about the injectors. Lol! I'm sure the CNC Fab pump is a fine one.

Corey has been on these forums for a long time and I've never heard anything but good stuff about anything he sells. I'm happy to see he has teamed up with the guys at KC turbos. I really think they are going to take the air side of things to the next level on this platform.

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[Chris2590]

Ok gotcha. They don’t disclose much info. I bought these injectors used with supposedly 30,000 miles on them and I love them. I think they are around 200-250 cc with a 200% nozzle.


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[ja_cain]

Ok gotcha. They don’t disclose much info. I bought these injectors used with supposedly 30,000 miles on them and I love them. I think they are around 200-250 cc with a 200% nozzle.


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Thanks for the info!

 

[Chris2590]

Np if your looking to buy some I’d go for it.


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[DZL JIM]

Approximately:
At 3 ms, 3000 rpm:

-------------2500 psi------3000 psi
170/80%----170 cc--------170 cc (obviously 3.0 ms is too much for these injectors)
238/80%----198 cc--------215 cc

At 2.5 ms, 3000 rpm:

--------------2500 psi-----3000 psi
170/80%-----158 cc-------165 cc
238/80%-----160 cc-------175 cc

Hybrids in general like a lot of pw.

 

[ja_cain]

Approximately:
At 3 ms, 3000 rpm:

-------------2500 psi------3000 psi
170/80%----170 cc--------170 cc (obviously 3.0 ms is too much for these injectors)
238/80%----198 cc--------215 cc

At 2.5 ms, 3000 rpm:

--------------2500 psi-----3000 psi
170/80%-----158 cc-------165 cc
238/80%-----160 cc-------175 cc

Hybrids in general like a lot of pw.

Awesome Jim. I'm such an idiot. Bigger plunger, not intensifier when going from an A code to a hybrid. Makes sense due to the larger displacement DT motors having higher full requirements. I guess the B codes sacrifice a little bit of fuel atomization for high fueling capacity. I can see why a hybrid is a no brainer for high PW and large nozzles.

I almost feel like a b code would be good for a 100% nozzle or a 150% nozzle if they made one.

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[gnxtc2]

I have a stage 2 pump but only running 175/80's. They are very oil hungry though.

Pump maintains 3200 PSI at about 28% duty cycle.

I don't understand why people think the 175/80's are "oil hungry".

The hpo capacity is no larger than a stock AD injector.

I've sold many many sets of 175/80's and more than 50% of them have been problematic with low icp and higher than expected IPR. All other P.I.S. dealers (that I talk to) have told me the same thing. So we don't recommend them because of too many headaches from injector builder pointing fingers at the tuner and vice versa.

What are the symptoms of low ICP/high IPR?

Reason I'm asking is if I jump/stab the throttle, my truck starts bucking. If I roll into full throttle, it's fine. No check engine lights.

Build up is in the sig

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[hucorey]

What are the symptoms of low ICP/high IPR?

Reason I'm asking is if I jump/stab the throttle, my truck starts bucking. If I roll into full throttle, it's fine. No check engine lights.

Build up is in the sig

Billy T.
[email protected]

Nic'k oring on an injector install, too much unnecessary PW on a tune, IPR leaking by, worn out pump, low fuel pressure to name the most common. Internal mechanical pressure relief not set right or the spring broke inside the pump.

At least there aren't as many options as a 6.0L for hpop leaks. Lol.

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[superpsd]

Awesome Jim. I'm such an idiot. Bigger plunger, not intensifier when going from an A code to a hybrid. Makes sense due to the larger displacement DT motors having higher full requirements. I guess the B codes sacrifice a little bit of fuel atomization for high fueling capacity. I can see why a hybrid is a no brainer for high PW and large nozzles.

I almost feel like a b code would be good for a 100% nozzle or a 150% nozzle if they made one.

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The nozzles are interchangeable between A and B. I'm running 200% nozzles on my B codes. Actually a B code does not sacrifice atomization as the A code nozzle spring VOP is 2750 psi and the B codes have a higher VOP at 3600 psi.

 

[lincolnlocker]

The nozzles are interchangeable between A and B. I'm running 200% nozzles on my B codes. Actually a B code does not sacrifice atomization as the A code nozzle spring VOP is 2750 psi and the B codes have a higher VOP at 3600 psi.

dammit, i keep forgetting but what is "vop" ahain?

live life full throttle

 

[mandkole]

Valve opening pressure

 

[m j]

that way of interpreting the math is incorrect anyway.
the only time you are going to see the pressure these guys think exists is if the nozzle was welded closed.
pressure is a measure of restriction, the nozzle is the restriction.
so all the math tells you is the maximum pressure the injector is capable of. not what fuel pressure is leaving the nozzle.

 

[superpsd]

Are you talking about incorrect as far as the nozzle springs go. A higher VOP will typically create a cleaner burn as pressure at the nozzle will be higher before the fuel overcomes the nozzle springs and starts injection. Most who played with increasing VOP found a cleaner burn but reduced power on the dynos. Changes to VOP also affect SOI.

 

[m j]

no. that 3000 psi hpo pressure = 21000 fuel pressure at nozzle = better atomization = hybrids have a disadvantage etc etc

all it says is the system can generate 21000 if there wasnt a leak in it.

cracking pressure makes sense to me, its used in mechanical PT fuel systems as well

 

[ja_cain]

That increased cracking pressure probably has something to do with poor atomization in the first few ms of fuel delevery in the b code. Also, maybe there is more residual pressure on a b code between injection cycles. The higher cracking pressure would keep it from leaking. I could be way off on that one though. Again, I would think it would have an impact on atomization of the fuel that comes out initially, but ultimately droplet size is going to depend on the orifice size and the pressure generated on the intensifier piston for all but the shortest of commanded pw's (like MJ said).

 

[superpsd]

Higher VOP pressure is due to stiffer springs. The effect is pressure will build higher before the spring in overcome and allows injection. Higher VOP will typically show a clean burn out the pipe due to increaed atomization however it reduces overall hp. Also without tuning changes increasing VOP retards timing and shortens overall injection time without increasing commanded PW as it takes longer to crack open.

The B codes that are used in the DT466 and 530e engines use 5 or 6 hole nozzles that have holes much larger than a stock 7.3 nozzle. This is probably why the VOP was set to 3700 to increase atomization on a larger nozzle. My B codes with 200% 7 hole nozzles are pretty clean at low load and idle even when cold without a chip and idle like a stock truck. I want to say the holes on a stock B code nozzle were equal to that of a 200% nozzle.

Again higher VOP increases atomization however reduces overall power and without tuning adjustments the nozzle has more delay and will inject less time as commanded due to the delay. At the same time modifications to flow inside the injector could probably overcome of those issues.

The B codes vary in sizes. BA, BB, BC are basically a stage 1 AC code injector with 3700 VOP springs and different nozzle. BD is the 240cc single shot. BE is an AD with higher VOP and different nozzles. BI, BG, BJ, BH, BN are all the same larger split shot injectors with different nozzles. They can flow 275cc but need 6ms to do so (split shots always need more time to inject) All B codes are 3700 VOP and all A codes are 2650 VOP.

 

[ja_cain]

Higher VOP pressure is due to stiffer springs. The effect is pressure will build higher before the spring in overcome and allows injection. Higher VOP will typically show a clean burn out the pipe due to increaed atomization however it reduces overall hp. Also without tuning changes increasing VOP retards timing and shortens overall injection time without increasing commanded PW as it takes longer to crack open.

The B codes that are used in the DT466 and 530e engines use 5 or 6 hole nozzles that have holes much larger than a stock 7.3 nozzle. This is probably why the VOP was set to 3700 to increase atomization on a larger nozzle. My B codes with 200% 7 hole nozzles are pretty clean at low load and idle even when cold without a chip and idle like a stock truck. I want to say the holes on a stock B code nozzle were equal to that of a 200% nozzle.

Again higher VOP increases atomization however reduces overall power and without tuning adjustments the nozzle has more delay and will inject less time as commanded due to the delay. At the same time modifications to flow inside the injector could probably overcome of those issues.

I hear what you are saying, but it is probably set that way to limit blow back.
Once it cracks the orifices are the flow limiter. Makes sense that the b-codes with the larger orifices (higher open area) use the higher cracking pressure as the cylinder pressures are probably higher due to increased fueling and load placed on the vehicles they are normally in.

*Edit*
Btw, do you know what those orifice sizes are and the A codes too? I would like to calculate the open area.