Barder Turbo Upgrade

[madpowerstroke]

Yes you are correct, he does do more, but is more always correct / needed

What i do works well and is much more economical for the customer.

If I got right the statement read as a comparison, that was the only reason I posted anything. What I do I do what you do you do, which one is right? If both than that's great. Wish I could produce the stage 3 and 4 cheaper to offer them for less money but I can't.

Last I remember the stage 4 hasn't proven its reliability. I believe SuperBlazin's stage 4 bearings were eating themselves. It may have been slightly different than the production model, but that is the info I have read so far.

Barder does quite a bit to make his stage 3 and 4 turbos reliable... actually I would say he spends the time to make all his turbos reliable... by balancing them. My opinion means diddly squat, but if somebody spent $10k+ on a balancing machine for his business then I think that separates a hobbyist from a professional.

The stage 4 that I sell has proven itself also, been on a truck for near a full year no problems and running 285 injectors.(Leadfoot performance) Used every day. The one that eat itself was a proto type, and still working on that one, James(superblazing) knew that when I sent it to him and wanted to try it. What you say Logan is you opinion and that is fine, I will stay out of this thread I don't want it to turn into a battle ground, would rather have info posted on here instead.

 

[strokin6L]

Its my fault guys. I shouldve never mentioned/brought up MTW in this thread thats about Barder turbos. I apologize to both Adrian and james and everyone else... by bad!

 

[Vizsla]

Adrian, can you just stay out of my threads and i'll do the same for yours

I like the more affordable idea as long has it is reliable which we will have to wait on, I know that the things I do to get a stage 3 and 4 have been proven reliable. I would also like to see numbers on the turbo next to my stage 3 and 4. Not saying that Barder turbo won't make the same power, but if even comes
close say by 20 rwhp then it would be a nice affordable option. Guess have to play the waiting number game. I really think track or dyno numbers need to come out before saying anything one way or another, until then it's just talk.

Wasn't getting into a battle with you, but if you are going to say that the stage 3 is too expensive compaired to your stage 4 and still make the same power, then I just think you should have proof of it. You started by compairing and bring my product into your thread in your statement so I will have something to say about it. I stated nothing wrong nor bashed your product, when I came on here everyone wanted proof of what I did, you come on here and expect everyone to not question anything you say. I know I would and so would a lot of other members like to see some sort of numbers. I have told you before I hope your idea of the turbine wheel works out and just being into the turbo stuff would like to see how much power it makes. When the numbers come out on the power it makes I will be one of the first to congratulate you, I like the fresh idea and other options.

If I got right the statement read as a comparison, that was the only reason I posted anything. What I do I do what you do you do, which one is right? If both than that's great. Wish I could produce the stage 3 and 4 cheaper to offer them for less money but I can't.



The stage 4 that I sell has proven itself also, been on a truck for near a full year no problems and running 285 injectors.(Leadfoot performance) Used every day. The one that eat itself was a proto type, and still working on that one, James(superblazing) knew that when I sent it to him and wanted to try it. What you say Logan is you opinion and that is fine, I will stay out of this thread I don't want it to turn into a battle ground, would rather have info posted on here instead.

Seems like James made a reasonable request in my first quote. It is difficult to find MTW results, Shawn Ellerton having success is a long ways from being replicable to your average Joe. He is special, nobody could argue that. Me personally have run 2-VGT-SS, VGT-40, VGT-SSX, 64&66 non-VGT. SSX was my favorite, lasted 18 months. Ran Cass 190's, then Elite 185's. VGT-40 was run second after a dropped/damaged SS after picking up from a build. It ran good, but surged while towing, held up good, was rebuilt and went to JHaddox with rebuilt 190 Cass injectors, pretty sure he liked it, but obviously the GT 40 is not new, this was early 08. Is success really one person running an MTW stage 4 really that, what about results? Less than a year, wait another 6 months, and see how it holds up. Superblazing turbo ran the same bearings? Probably. No big VGT will last without a complete balance as a unit, anything else is silly, sure you may get lucky on one, but that's it. I would post the link on people pulling their hybrid because their stocker runs better, but no point, if you are remotely serious about building turbos, spend the money on a balancer, no matter what you do this is the only way to make a big VGT last for a reasonable amount of time, it is the nature of the beast.

 

[Superblazin]

As my miss spelt name is brought up, I suppose I have a right to comment as well as a customer on one of the products mentioned.

Mtw service is top notch.. I originally started with the stage 3.. Those are the results you mention of "Shawn's one off success". Success I am proud of as its my truck, but Shawn didn't piss on the turbo or do any redneck voodoo to it! He simply bolted it in, As any one of would.

Gains were seen with the stage 3 in hp, fuel economy and lower egt's! Cleaned up 205's, towed and most importantly to me was a fun ride!

But as the bug goes I wanted more and with speaking to Adrian, I offered to run a prototype design to his stage 4..
R and D isn't always a success storey, The Bearing did start to show signs of wear by having play in it! I wouldn't call it "eaten up" Adrian immediately requested I send it back and a new turbo (Another prototype stage 3) was shipped out without any hardship of downtime when it was discovered that there was play starting to develop. great customer service. He never charged me for this! The fact that he publically shares his success and fails along his Journey is pretty stand up! We know not all companies are that transparent and usually point blame to Someone or something else when something doesn't go in a positive way!


The stage 4 prototype had 20 some dyno pulls and close to 10,000 miles, Was an absolute animal and fun to drive on a street toy. I attempted to get results but failed to get accuracy out of the dyno that day.


I personally know of another stage 4 running around for several months along with dyno results.. But its up to that user to share his numbers and opinion not mine!

As for the longevity of the big vgt's lasting.. Your right only time will tell!
I haven't searched, But did I miss where the results are posted on the new Barder Turbo products of comparison in size?
You mention a vast number of large vgt turbo's you ran back in 08, I wasn't around then to know the history, But do you have any numbers from them with your combo?

It would be nice to see some results comparing the two products with the same truck as well, something I may be interested in James if you want to pm me and we can chat if interested.

 

[NRHX2009]

As my miss spelt name is brought up, I suppose I have a right to comment as well as a customer on one of the products mentioned.

Mtw service is top notch.. I originally started with the stage 3.. Those are the results you mention of "Shawn's one off success". Success I am proud of as its my truck, but Shawn didn't piss on the turbo or do any redneck voodoo to it! He simply bolted it in, As any one of would.

Gains were seen with the stage 3 in hp, fuel economy and lower egt's! Cleaned up 205's, towed and most importantly to me was a fun ride!

But as the bug goes I wanted more and with speaking to Adrian, I offered to run a prototype design to his stage 4..
R and D isn't always a success storey, The Bearing did start to show signs of wear by having play in it! I wouldn't call it "eaten up" Adrian immediately requested I send it back and a new turbo (Another prototype stage 3) was shipped out without any hardship of downtime when it was discovered that there was play starting to develop. great customer service. He never charged me for this! The fact that he publically shares his success and fails along his Journey is pretty stand up! We know not all companies are that transparent and usually point blame to Someone or something else when something doesn't go in a positive way!


The stage 4 prototype had 20 some dyno pulls and close to 10,000 miles, Was an absolute animal and fun to drive on a street toy. I attempted to get results but failed to get accuracy out of the dyno that day.


I personally know of another stage 4 running around for several months along with dyno results.. But its up to that user to share his numbers and opinion not mine!

As for the longevity of the big vgt's lasting.. Your right only time will tell!
I haven't searched, But did I miss where the results are posted on the new Barder Turbo products of comparison in size?
You mention a vast number of large vgt turbo's you ran back in 08, I wasn't around then to know the history, But do you have any numbers from them with your combo?

It would be nice to see some results comparing the two products with the same truck as well, something I may be interested in James if you want to pm me and we can chat if interested.

Thank you for the offer, but honestly I cant afford to build a turbo to that extent from a new powermax and send it out for free. I do apologize but I just cant afford it. I'm a one man shop, in a **** ton of debt from starting a business, and I have a "regular" job.

Im working with a customer of mine now to get some results on the 71/70 setup I am doing, from his existing P max.

 

[Redneck6.0L]

Ty dyno'd 657hp with. 190s today with a madds stage 4 and spray it. To 765. He's gonna start a thread with video. Tomorrow. So that's 2 trucks in butt €uck nowhere northern canada that has proven themselves. He's got 10inchs of lift with 40inch tires. Super happy guy. Ok continue your rants guys. But until any of you step up and prove your hp with your turbos. Your nothing more than a bunch of keyboard racers.

 

[ODAWG714]

Ty dyno'd 657hp with. 190s today with a madds stage 4 and spray it. To 765. He's gonna start a thread with video. Tomorrow. So that's 2 trucks in butt €uck nowhere northern canada that has proven themselves. He's got 10inchs of lift with 40inch tires. Super happy guy. Ok continue your rants guys. But until any of you step up and prove your hp with your turbos. Your nothing more than a bunch of keyboard racers.

Ain't no one a keyboard racer here this was simply a thread started as a review. Keep the bull**** of who's dick is bigger than who's out no one cares

 

[tyedyer]

I aint got a clue how to put up video's so someone tell me how and I will

 

[NRHX2009]

Video of?

 

[Pizza pig]

So let me get this straight, two trucks putting down power on a dyno proves themselves? Yeah they can make power on a dyno, the street and the track, but for how long? Thats the debate here, its not rocket science. As far as I'm concerned James, I applaud your maturity on this topic. Elite's VGT HO made just shy of 600 years ago with 205s, they didnt last long on every truck but they made power. Everyone needs to step back and relax with this "he copied me" "his stuff sucks" bull crap because its getting old, and fast. Because lets face it none of these companies have been around long enough building these turbos to "know" their longevity.

Im very tempted to pull my t4 stuff for one of you chargers James and beat the living piss out of it.

 

[strokin6L]

Video of?

His truck with the MTW stage 4

 

[strokin6L]

So let me get this straight, two trucks putting down power on a dyno proves themselves? Yeah they can make power on a dyno, the street and the track, but for how long? Thats the debate here, its not rocket science. As far as I'm concerned James, I applaud your maturity on this topic. Elite's VGT HO made just shy of 600 years ago with 205s, they didnt last long on every truck but they made power. Everyone needs to step back and relax with this "he copied me" "his stuff sucks" bull crap because its getting old, and fast. Because lets face it none of these companies have been around long enough building these turbos to "know" their longevity.

Im very tempted to pull my t4 stuff for one of you chargers James and beat the living piss out of it.

True...these are companies that haven't been out long...but the stage 3 turbo from MTW has lasted over 30k miles. What point are you gonna prove by pulling your T4 stuff and beating the crap out of a big vgt? Guys have been doing it for over a year so far greg with no issues. What's gonna make you doing it any different

 

[Pizza pig]

Still doesnt prove anything 30k miles is nothing. Were talking 50-100k miles of abuse. Im not trying to prove any point by switching turbos, I want to see for myself how durable they are. Was merely making a statement, since my 66 has play in the thrust already after 30k miles, mostly due to not having a blow off valve.

 

[strokin6L]

30k proves they're holding up and doing just fine. Hell I wouldn't expect any turbo to last 50-100k mikes if every mile was an abusive one .

 

[Fox hunt]

I just ordered a new stage 2 from James. I'm only on stock sticks right now, but I'm excited to compare it to my hybrid.

 

[1fastTRX]

I just ordered a new stage 2 from James. I'm only on stock sticks right now, but I'm excited to compare it to my hybrid.

Im loving my Stage 2. Little higher cruising egt's, little more lag from a dead stop... but open her up and WOW! Great towing for me so far!

 

[Fox hunt]

Nice can't wait. It gets here Monday!

 

[ajbond]

Don't you have some numbers to post???

 

[1fastTRX]

I tried posting from my phone earlier, but gave up after my fat fingers pushed the wrong area of the screen and wiped the message... twice. lol!

I got the truck dyno'd for the heck of it. If I had any kind of goal it was to be at least 400hp/700tq. I was surprised with what I got. The ambient temp was 91 degrees and IAT1 was reading 102 degrees on each pass. I literally drove in off the street and right on to the rollers. All 3 passes were solid and consistent. I would say a variance of 2hp/5tq max anywhere in the graph for all 3 passes.

Final Result
485hp/863tq (gearhead SRL-XX tune)

I'm ecstatic to say the least. I know track mph will tell the true story and I want to go... not because I want to back up the numbers, but because I just enjoy going to the track once in a while. If the track says I make less hp then it is what it is. All I want is a fun driving truck. I'm there!

So far I've spooled a stock turbo, MTW Stage 1, MTW Hybrid, Billet Powermax, and now my favorite... a Barder Stage 2 turbo

I've tried tunes from Tony Wildman (Extreme), Vivian @ Quick Tricks (Looney Wild), Eric @ IDP (Xtreme Race), and now my favorite and daily driver... Gearhead (SRL-XX).

edit: Anybody know how I can go back and edit my first post so I can add the info there? I don't want somebody to have to read through 6 pages to see the dyno results.

 

[1fastTRX]

I was going to edit the last post again, but I can't anymore. I guess all posts are set in stone after 5 minutes... LOL

All the pulls were stopped at 3300 rpm for whatever reason. It was still making power at the end. I'm not sure where our trucks HP usually tapers off though. Heres the graph: