mikeeg02
New member
Pretty sure there is a return passage/vent/whatever you want to call it. Isn't that why when Ive changed high pressurr oil pumps I can't over fill the reservoir, no matter how much oil I put in it? Or what am I missing here?
Big(ish) Hybrids and dropping oil pressure
- Thread starter DZL JIM
- Start date
Pretty sure there is a return passage/vent/whatever you want to call it. Isn't that why when Ive changed high pressurr oil pumps I can't over fill the reservoir, no matter how much oil I put in it? Or what am I missing here?
DZL JIM
Member
At the end of the track and I let off, RPM's drop, HPOil drops, and LPOil drops all at once. Nothing spikes, ever.
I initially thought that the reservoir was running out of oil as the pump keeps spinning north of 4k rpm pulling oil from the res, and that my external pressure regulator couldn't deal with the excess oil quickly enough and dumped it when I let off the throttle.
If the external regulator was in fact dumping too much dropping system pressure, then that means the reservoir was staying full, which could be the only way there could be a surplus of oil in the system, by not sending through the injectors as well as the IPR once I let off the throttle.
So now I am starting over in my thoughts.
I am trying to grasp what a second IPR will do. I'm not arguing that it won't work, just trying to figure out why it would. I know that the dual pumps(like FF/BTS duals) work great with 2 IPR's and they obviously are moving a ton of oil.
Do the pumps work better/prefer to dump out an IPR and not the bleed off?
I know the bleed off is a safety thing.
And I will try a 5w50 oil next season. My engine builder says it will probably help keep things more consistent any way.
Missing something. You can overfill the HPOil reservoir quite easily. It holds lube system pressure when the engine is running, period. No venting. If you can't fill it up then you have an issue somewhere, that's not typical.
The Brad
New member
Is it possible that, at a high enough level, the hpop reservoir can drain past the hpop and down through an unenergized IPR?
boggerr
New member
IPR is always energized.
Jim, is there anyway you can get IPR duty cycle readings? Would like to know if it holds steady or climbs as your in the throttle
Jim, is there anyway you can get IPR duty cycle readings? Would like to know if it holds steady or climbs as your in the throttle
DZL JIM
Member
If you mean with the key off, the system is designed to hold oil there so that it doesn't bleed down, so that there is always oil there ready to fire up the engine.
Unfortunately no. This is my Altered chassis drag car. There is zero room for a scan tool etc, I have no way to record DC. Things happen much too quickly at low 9 second passes to try and look at a certain gauge to see what it's reading.
psduser1
Well-known member
No hpo oil spikes would tell me your ipr is keeping up, or at least close. I read your op as a spike at shutdown, hence the suggestion for a second ipr. I'd say the biggest advantage to the ipr would be some measure of control based on the tuning tables, vs strictly pressure which an add-on regulator/relief/safety style valve generally works with. But, I agree, usually that's not an issue until guys get into dual pumps, etc.
Where is your external regulator tied in? Any way to monitor pressure before/after the regulator to determine approximate oil flow during a rough running event? That could tell you if it's doing what it's supposed to. I'm assuming the regulator is a simple spring style setup?
Where is your external regulator tied in? Any way to monitor pressure before/after the regulator to determine approximate oil flow during a rough running event? That could tell you if it's doing what it's supposed to. I'm assuming the regulator is a simple spring style setup?
boggerr
New member
My understanding of the dual IPR was that a single couldn't react quick enough after a hard run. Basically the single was being held open by the pressure and volume going through it when you let off the throttle.
I ran twin pumps with a single IPR pushing a little more pressure than Jim and never had a problem but maybe with a single pump and that pressure it's different.
Jim, just hang a scan gauge off your helmet LOL
I ran twin pumps with a single IPR pushing a little more pressure than Jim and never had a problem but maybe with a single pump and that pressure it's different.
Jim, just hang a scan gauge off your helmet LOL
boggerr
New member
Jim, just did a search. Is that the pics of the hpop setup on your web site?
DZL JIM
Member
Dual pumps at 3400 rpm (typical?), vs a big single pump at 4400 rpm, probably pretty close in output...???
Oil exits front cover where cooler would normally be, goes to filter head, from filter head it goes to regulator. Regulator output goes to back of block where rear of cooler would normally be, and dumps excess to pan.
Well shoot, I have a scan gauge (Aeroforce) in the dash. Do they record IPR DC? If so, how do you review the recording? Guess I need to look into that.
DZL JIM
Member
Nah, it's just a big single pump, nothing special, looks factory.
boggerr
New member
Lmao! I haven't messed with a scan gauge in awhile. I know it will show DC but not sure if a scan gauge will record it and I know you ain't watching it on a 9 sec pass lol
The Brad
New member
I meant key off. If leaking injector O rings (the upper square one in my case) can drain the hpop reservoir, then what keeps the oil from draining past an open IPR? Kind of a tangent from your issue. I was following Mikeeg02 down a rabbit hole.
DZL JIM
Member
It's been way to long since I knew the ins and outs of the HPOP so I can't explain it all very clearly, but there's no where for the oil to go, unless you have leaking O-rings. It's designed to hold the oil there, even with dead (open) IPR at rest. I'd have to tear into my box of HPOP parts to jog my memory as to exactly why.
boggerr
New member
It's all in the reservoir. The IPR dump is the highest point in the system. With no pressure in the system there is no way to push the oil above that point.
DZL JIM
Member
Just found this: Diesel Drags
For anyone wanting to know the vehicle in question. Black Altered, can't miss it.
For anyone wanting to know the vehicle in question. Black Altered, can't miss it.
boggerr
New member
Just found this: Diesel Drags
For anyone wanting to know the vehicle in question. Black Altered, can't miss it.
Very nice!!! Must be a fun ride
boggerr
New member
Just reread some of this thread. You don't need to run the IPR dump back into the reservoir so it feeds back threw the pump. There is a spot in the reservoir cover that will dump it back into the panr. Your idle issue could be that dump and some tuning tweaks.
psduser1
Well-known member
I would like to talk to you about this pump!
And yes the scanguage is capable of datalogging. Whether it's fine enough resolution? It'll get you ballpark,at least.
Uh-huh
Kinda where I was going. Doesn't seem to be a lack of oil, rather a lack of oil control. Fine tuning, as it were.
I haven't done the math, but, volume is volume, no matter how many pumps it takes to get there. Fixed displacement pumps need "x" amount of relief.
Datalog a pass, check dc and commanded vs actual pressure, and I think you'll see your problem.
Are you running your own tuning?
boggerr
New member
I know that IPR dump can cause some idle issues, mine acted up when I dumped back into the res. Moving that dump could fix some of the idle issues but if the res is getting starved of oil that dump is actually helping.
Thinking Jim has a few issues going on but I think the biggest concern is figuring out that oil pressure drop.
DZL JIM
Member
1) It's a well known pump from a well-known company, nothing special. It's just a LOT of rpm's causing it to flow a LOT of oil.
2) I'll look into the scan gauge's capabilities soon.
3) Agreed, oil control. But if I can't get the low pressure to keep up I'll need to add an accumulator or something.
4) I'd love to know the output of this pump, so that I can crunch numbers and try and figure stuff out that way, instead of wild guesses. But I have yet to be able to get a call back from the pump guys.
5) Logging DC will help, commanded vs actual ICP is irrelevant right now, I know it's more than adequate.
6) Yes, self-tuned, learning as I go...
