Blown HG, o-ringed and studs...

powerlifter405 · Apr 25, 2021

cRaZy8 said:
So when I torqued the heads, I used that same digital torque wrench. Never used one before. My buddies shop I am doing the work in is an auto repair shop. It's his wrench. It retains the last torque setting in the memory. The last spec used was 170ft lbs. That's the spec that I put in, that's the spec for the Extreme Studs.

There was no way those studs were at 170ftlbs. Either that digital wrench is a piece of crap and it's completely off calibration....or something is up with those studs.leading to believe the wrench is junk. Hard to say.

I used the exact lube they called for, used it on all the threads, washers, nut flange etc.

Gonna call the stud company in the morning. Very hesitant to put them back in that's for sure.

170ftlbs?
Just thinking out loud but if ARP says to torque to 210fts on their newest set of instructions with their new assembly lube, 170 is a less clamping force compared to 210. ARP has been around for several decades, literally the oldest specialized high performance automotive fastener. I watched a show about ARP and the attention to detail and precision is impressive. I have no qualms about using their products.

A buddy has a shop and along w/ his friend have several 6.0's in the 2.6 class and he does 6.0's to 250ftbls and 6.4's to 300ftlbs. He's had no HG issues in any of their pulling trucks w/ the elevated torque numbers. At his recommendation, I did the same when I did mine.

With 300k on the motor, in the truck, one stud at a time I had the final torque # of 250. I've since pulled trailers as far as 1600 miles and I do at least the posted speed limit, I'm not usually worried about mileage so I'm aggressive w/ the pedal.

After reading everything, it sounds like low torque #'s on the studs and maybe a deck issue. Even the fancy 625 ARPS have a torque # of 265ftlbs, that almost 100# more clamping force than the other brand of "extreme studs".

Check the deck and switch over to ARPs :shrug:

cRaZy8 · Apr 25, 2021

Agreed. I have a couple calls into Mike @No Limit Fab. No call back yet. Jeff from Extreme was very cordial on the phone. Plan to call Mike again tmrw when they open.

Have the truck back together with ARPs. Ran it today for about an hour. Runs great. Haven't pushed the boost too hard yet. Typically like to heat cycle the heads a couple times prior to giving her the wood.

powerlifter405 · Apr 27, 2021

Hopefully you get some good follow up news.

Yeah, I've read that a few guys w/ the ability/shop will do a few heat cycles, pull the cab and retorque. I didn't have that luxury so I did incremental to 250ftlbs then did 2 more rounds. The 2nd go around I got a hair more turn before it clicked and on the 3rd pass each one was instant click.

Haven't looked back since.

Good luck

cRaZy8 · May 8, 2021

Update.

Neither Mike at No Limit Fab or Jeff at Extreme will return my phone calls.

I called and talked to one of Mikes 'customer service' guys. He was pretty rude and insisted that its not their fault or their problem.
He told me I had to take it up with Jeff.
Even after I tried to explain to him, No Limit is selling these parts, they are representing Extreme as a dealer. No Limit has my $750, not Extreme.
He didnt care. When I asked to speak with Mike, he told me Mike was on vacation till Monday. That was 5 days ago he was supposed to be back. Wont return my calls or emails.

Long story short. Extreme Studs and No Limit can kiss my @$$.
Horrible customer service.
Absolute trash how they both are handling the situation.
Like little kids.
How do you not even return phone calls?

79jasper · May 8, 2021

Not that it helps, but in my research those studs were deemed junk by the cumminGs crowd. But around a few of the ford forums people went down the Ole "well such and such sells them, and he wouldn't sell junk" rabbit hole.

Sent from my SM-G988U using Tapatalk

cRaZy8 · May 18, 2021

Update-

Jeff at Extreme Studs reached out, and refunded me $650.
He was very apologetic and made the situation right.

Still have no call backs from No Limit, and last I spoke with them, it was a 'customer service rep'. Awful service. Basically told me to kick rocks and they are not liable.
Last time I would buy anything from them thats for sure.

Current situation, ARPs installed with new Mahle gaskets.
Almost a 1000 miles so far with some very heavy throttle and towing.
Coolant pressure hasnt pushed over 6 psi.
Averages 4-5 psi.

PSD POWER007 · May 18, 2021

cRaZy8 said:
Update-

Jeff at Extreme Studs reached out, and refunded me $650.
He was very apologetic and made the situation right.

Still have no call backs from No Limit, and last I spoke with them, it was a 'customer service rep'. Awful service. Basically told me to kick rocks and they are not liable.
Last time I would buy anything from them thats for sure.

Current situation, ARPs installed with new Mahle gaskets.
Almost a 1000 miles so far with some very heavy throttle and towing.
Coolant pressure hasnt pushed over 6 psi.
Averages 4-5 psi.

Which ARP’s did you go with?

cRaZy8 · May 19, 2021

Standard ARPs.
Thats what I had in there prior. That was with stock heads, not machined, and stock gaskets.
I got 80k miles out of those at the same power levels I am pushing now.
If I get another 80k (assume more due to the o-rings), I will be happy.
Thats about 7-8 years of driving for me.

The 625's were still backordered, and my truck makes me money, I cant have it down that long.
Most places were telling me mid June for 625s.
Some engine builders are getting them late May apparently.

TooManyToys · Jun 9, 2021

Late to the thread.

cRaZy8 said:
...... I used my buddies Snap On digital torque wrench to take the nuts off. It shows the deload torque spec. It was almost laughable at some of the numbers I got. The highest was 148ftlbs. Most were between. 115 and 135.

So when I torqued the heads, I used that same digital torque wrench. Never used one before. ..... It retains the last torque setting in the memory. The last spec used was 170ft lbs. That's the spec that I put in, that's the spec for the Extreme Studs.

There was no way those studs were at 170ftlbs. .....

I used the exact lube they called for, used it on all the threads, washers, nut flange etc.

cRaZy8, I have to commend you for doing that; not many do.

That is the proper way to audit clamping load, measure the torque backing off. People can check clamping load by backing off, measuring the value, and then reapplying. It's done with critical applications, even with gaskets, as long as the temperature is ambient.

Torque is only a measurement of rotational force, and friction is the biggest variable. All fasteners relax over time due to several factors. We use lubricants to even out the friction and reduce it, so it's easier to tension the fastener, but friction also keeps the fasteners from counter-rotating and backing off. Studs have three friction surfaces rather than two, so the potential is higher for loosening.

So, yeah, the wrong lubricant will alter not only the tension on the fastener (high or low) but can alter the tendency for the nut or bolt to back off. In addition, every fastener of the same 14mm size can have different torque specs due to the thread pitch, surface finish, or lubricant used.

wedge542 · Jun 16, 2021

Your buddy might need to get that fancy torque wrench calibrated,,very good chance its off some,,,ive tried them before with no luck after several builds so went back to the click type and all ours are sent back to snap on every 12 months like clockwork and i get cards on each one every time...just a thought.

nitrogen here 2 · Jun 25, 2022

Something I have been thinking of if I ever have to rebuild my 6 l is to get someone in with a steamer unit and pump steam through the entire waterjacket until it is about 200 Fahrenheit after the first torque and then do the final torque while it is fully hot.

Hartwig · Jun 28, 2022

Which ARP studs are the best for a stock rebuild?
How much torque on the studs?
Which torque sequence?
Thanks.

DEEZUZ · Jun 28, 2022

I have a few hundred installs of the base(cheaper 250-4202, aka the arp 2000s) with zero issues.

Instructions are in the box but 3 equal steps to 210

70
140
210

Plenty of lube on THE UPPER threads, washer, and nut landing. I place a dab of engine oil on the lower threads just to let them twist cause they will on final torque.

FWIW I have never hot torqued or retorqued anything ever.

Hartwig · Jun 29, 2022

Thank you. Did you wait a short time before putting on 210 so that the whole "set" can?

What combination heads / HGs do you use?

Getting back to the original post, I'm always a little concerned about air tools. The brushes can create fine scoring in the block, which can eventually lead to problems. I only use hand tools for cleaning.
I always pull engines for those jobs.