build advice

ZF6.4 · Nov 2, 2016

So I'm new to PSA but have been reading and biding my time for quite a while now just gathering information but I have a question or two. I have a 2008 ECLB F350 with the ZF6 and will be pulling the cab this spring for some upgrades, if my goal of 700-800hp is reached will I need to upgrade to wagler/carrillo rods and coated/de-lipped/valve relieved pistons or should the stock internals be able to hold up to the added power? Only reason I'm asking is because I just now found out how much new rods cost and I've only got a budget of about $15k for the entire project and I HAVE to get a new clutch and a set of tires with that money as well.

This was going to be my build list before I saw the price of the rods:

T4 single turbo kit S467
A1 H-11 Head Studs
Pistons coated/de-lipped/valve relieved
85HP 30% nozzles
Fire ring heads
Fass 150GPH titanium LPFP
G&R sump kit
SB street dual disk clutch

Hopefully that would have gotten me started and the rest I could do later on without lifting the cab again. Anyway looking forward to your guys opinions, thanks.

powerstroked08 · Nov 2, 2016

Stock rods are good to that power level. And you gotta remember that it's not the hp that bends them. It's the torque. And being that your going to a single your going to drop some low end torque which is going to help the rods. Now with your build that's a nice list bit you really don't need the fly cut pistons. Stick to the maxx force pistons coated. With the fly cut pistons it can haze at idle sometimes and it's not needed on your build unless your running a pile of rpms or a big cam. And you would probably have better luck with a fuelab low pressure setup for reliability. The air dog and fass have had their share of troubles. And your more than likely going to drop rail pressure with the 30's. I mean a few and I mean a very few have maintained rail with a single pump and 30's.

ZF6.4 · Nov 2, 2016

Actually Elite's twin K16 kit is on the list for later down the road along with the fuel bowl ******. I just figured that it's $4000 that could be spent when the cab was back on a couple months later lol.

Black AOD · Nov 2, 2016

What Powerstroked08 said is spot on.

FYI I have the same body configuration truck as you but I stuck with compounds. Here's my motor/fuel/turbo build list and I've made between 800-850 rwhp ON FUEL with this setup. Note, my motor has stock rods, and I also do not have any mods to my heads to improve airflow. I could also do a better intake manifold.

I'm convinced I could see over 900 rwhp with better head flow and intake manifold flow with the same turbo and fuel setup I have now. Lowering my truck down low and doing street style wheel/tire setup would help me too.

New 6.4 shortblock, machined and surfaced
Intl/Mahle HD Pistons, flycut, delipped and coated.
60% Injectors by RCD
Aeromotive 130 GPH Lift Pump
Elite Diesel Fuel Bowl dlete
Elite Diesel FUel Cooler Upgrade Kit
Midwest Diesel Dual Fueler K16 Kit
Stage 1x Cam from Tadd @ Elite
Elite HD Lifters with Extra Oil Bearing
New OEM Rockers
New OEM heads, surfaced, hardened valve seats
Extreme H13 Head Studs
RCD High Rev Valve Springs
Smith Bro's HD Pushrods
Elite Diesel 2.0 High Powers (Gen 2 Precision 7675, Custom VGT with 63mm Batmo Wheel)
Custom Elite Diesel air intake with AFE PG7 Filter
Elite Diesel Billet Flexplate
BD Diesel 6.0 Exhaust Manifolds
RCD 304SS Custom Up-Pipes
RCD Ported Intake Manifold
Custom Hotside Pipe
Mishimoto V2 Radiator
Precision Turbo Intercooler
Custom Downpipe
Twin Wastegate Setup with 44mm Tial and 46mm Precision
5" Flo Pro Exhaust
ATI Harmonic Balancer/Damper
ARP Flexplate bolts
ARP Crankshaft adapter Bolts
ARP Connecting Rod Bolts
RCD Custom Aluminum Oil Pan
Midwest Diesel Competition Pkg 5R110
Precision Industries Triple Disc TC

What I can say/offer up is this.....You're wasting your time with 30% nozzles on a single stock pump. You're losing power as you wont maintain RP. The 30's are too much for one k16, you'll need a duel fueler kit. Even people who tried 15's barely gained anything...go duel fueler if you want to do injectors.

I regret not doing rods in my motor now....Have a bent one or thrown it out the pan/block? No. Will I eventually? Yeah probably. Then again people like Mike Corsilli have gotten full drag pass seasons on 1000+ on fuel with stock rods so who knows. All I know is I'd do them if I had to redo my motor. I'd also do billet lpop gears for the oil pump (peace of mind thing) and I'd port my heads and do bigger intake and exhaust valves. These motor's lack top end air flow and head porting for 6.4 heads is much better now than it was 4-5 years ago.

Don't forget to do a ported intake manifold either.

Also, the more oil you can get to the valvetrain the better. The new HD lifters are a must if you ask me, and if you can do an oil bypass system and direct the oil into the valvetrain inside the valve covers, DO IT! Rocker arms wear quick on these things. The more oil there, the better.

Alsdo, don't fire ring your heads.....Just do standard O-Rings. Fire Rings wont be necessary at that level.

ZF6.4 · Nov 2, 2016

Black AOD said:
Alsdo, don't fire ring your heads.....Just do standard O-Rings. Fire Rings wont be necessary at that level.

I thought fire ring and O-Ring were basically the same thing where a groove is cut into the head making a ring around the cylinder and steel wire was laid in the groove so it would bite the head gasket and prevent blown head gaskets?

Black AOD · Nov 2, 2016

ZF6.4 said:
I thought fire ring and O-Ring were basically the same thing where a groove is cut into the head making a ring around the cylinder and steel wire was laid in the groove so it would bite the head gasket and prevent blown head gaskets?

That's O-Ringing you just described.

Fire ringing is described as below:

Fire ringing is cutting or machining a circular groove in your cylinder head OR block surface, or sometimes both surfaces. The groove is generally machined in the head in most street uses. Once the groove is cut, a circular mild steel ring is set on the block in the grooves that were cut. In the case of having the head cut, generally you glue the rings to the head to ensure proper positioning with the cylinder when you install the cylinder head. allowing a strong seal. This application will hold upwards of 100PSI of boost when using the correct fasteners. When you machine both the head and block, about half the recommended machining depth is used on the head and block, this way, the rings are set in both the head and the block with even less chance of them shifting when re-installing the head.

ZF6.4 · Nov 2, 2016

Soooo what's the difference? The only thing I can see different in fire ringing would be putting a groove and steel wire in both the block and head but that's only in some circumstances right?

6.0 Tech · Nov 2, 2016

Fire rings require special head gaskets as well that are cut oversize to fit the ring. The ring becomes your cylinder sealer, whereas with an o ring, yhe o ring is just pushing on the gasket more basically. Fire rings also require periodif retorques, or you will eventually push part of the ring out and have a real bad time. Fire rings are meant for full on race/competition use for the fact that they require so much maintenance. O rings typically only require one retorque after the initial torque, typically sitting for 24 hours or so to make sure the o ring did not settle.

ZF6.4 · Nov 21, 2016

Alright so I've got an update on my build with a deal I couldn't really pass up... Here's the new list of parts, and you might notice that my budget went up based on the parts listed lol.

S366 / S483 compound turbo kit
ported and polished 6.0 manifolds/up-pipes
2 compgate 40 waste gates/waste gate regulators
K16 dual fueler
60% nozzles
ported intake manifold
trying to find A1 H-11 studs
FASS 220
Fuel bowl removal
oil cooler and filter relocation
G&R sump
south bend 3850 clutch
O-ring heads
other minor hardware

will look at piston and see how they are when the heads come off and if we decide to replace them then will get delipped and coated pistons as well as upgraded rods while we are in there.