Charles, Lets talk Tuners

MRT1 · Jan 27, 2012

I am starting this thread in an effort to not ruin the original posters thread of the “EGTs getting up there” post.

This thread is to bring to light the allegations brought forth by Charles of DP-Tuners excessive timing and to also solicit his and others expertise of maps that I will post. I purchased calibrations in July of 2009 from the following tuners; Swamps Diesel, Gearhead Automotive, Total Diesel Performance, Beans Diesel Performance, Power Hungry Performance and DP-Tuner.

The sole purpose of this thread is to reveal timing tables and maps from all of the above listed tuners so all can view and make an informed comparison. DP-Tuner is just one of six and I will post maps from all tuners and we will all see who is running what for timing. This is not a thread for a tuner war so please do not post you opinions. I want to post hard data only and then discuss the individual maps. This is where you can really shine Charles; please give your opinion to each map.

Before we get started a few details need to be noted.

1. I believe that the maps that Charles posted from DP-Tuner have a date of October 2007

2. Charles stated that the maximum allowable timing advance scalar on his DP tune was set to 135 degrees. I have no doubt it was due to the fact that 135 is a stock scalar value and at that time tuners had not discovered using that function as a timing limiter. If you Charles did indeed know that in 2007 you did not share that information with your buds at Swamps. All of the calibrations that were listed above purchased in 2009 with the exception of DP-Tuner have 135 degrees as the maximum allowable timing advance scalar. The DP-Tuner calibration was purchased in February of 2008 and has a maximum allowable timing advance scalar of 28 degrees. I have no idea when DP-Tuner started using this function to limit timing but based on my calibrations and purchase dates I will say he was ahead of the curve in comparison to the other five tuners. That being said I would say anyone with a DP tune dated after February 2008 will have a limit set to their tune.

3. I will start posting maps tonight and tomorrow.

Again, lets keep this a technical discussion.

silverpsd_06 · Jan 27, 2012

I would like to see the maps and timing tables also and get Charles opinion on them it's always interesting to listen in on these discussions... Ding ding schools in ladies!

Gearhead · Jan 27, 2012

Well don't just post the timing maps.... the injector delay table matters too, probably more than the timing table.

BTW, I DO NOT think this is cool.... If you are going to do this be prepared for possible legal action by some of the tuners.

Justin@DP-Tuner · Jan 27, 2012

Gearhead said:
Well don't just post the timing maps.... the injector delay table matters too, probably more than the timing table.

BTW, I DO NOT think this is cool.... If you are going to do this be prepared for possible legal action by some of the tuners.

I agree. Put all the major info correlating to tuning.

$hit could definitely hit the fan in this thread...

dave186 · Jan 27, 2012

I am very interested in this. as far as legality I dont know, but I do feel that if you buy tunes, you should be able to see this stuff.

389sixpack · Jan 27, 2012

I think all should tread lightly here - this will watched very closely by the Mods.....

.

907DAVE · Jan 27, 2012

Maybe post them up with no names attached.

But seriously dude, this is stealing and distributing the tuners intellectual property......and you should proceed with caution.

PTSUPERD · Jan 27, 2012

389sixpack said:
I think all should tread lightly here - this will watched very closely by the Mods.....

.

Agreed.

Jason · Jan 27, 2012

While I can agree with being able to see what's on your tunes. I see it more from the business standpoint. You can get cam cards from 99% of the cam companies out there, but why do the top custom cam grinders in the 5 liter mustang world not let their cam information slip out into the publics hands??

Justin@DP-Tuner · Jan 27, 2012

neverkickn said:
This thread is kinda dirty.

I don't think it is dirty at all. This thread could go very good or very bad. It is all in the hands of the people who respond. This could be a huge learning experience or a major tuner war. Hopefully it turns out to benefit everyone.

MRT1 · Jan 27, 2012

Gearhead said:
Well don't just post the timing maps.... the injector delay table matters too, probably more than the timing table.

Correct I have that as well as EOT vs RPM, Injector timing adder vs manifold temp, Injector timing adder vs RPM and all the scalar values.

BTW, I DO NOT think this is cool.... If you are going to do this be prepared for possible legal action by some of the tuners.

Well to be fair Matt you did not mind when it was DP-Tuners maps being posted. I did not notice you posting that being uncool. However this thread is about technical discussion and please feel free to chime in.

I will start it off with a question for you Matt, do you use a timing limit function such as DP-Tuner now and if so what value do you feel appropriate.

neverkickn · Jan 27, 2012

JBone said:
I don't think it is dirty at all. This thread could go very good or very bad. It is all in the hands of the people who respond. This could be a huge learning experience or a major tuner war. Hopefully it turns out to benefit everyone.

Lets hope.

MRT1 · Jan 27, 2012

Gentlemen,

I have started a thread titled "Tuner discussion" in AWOL. I am going to be posting an extreme amount of information first thing in the morning and I would like to have only technical discussion. If you want to respond to me in regards to ethics, opinions or legality please do so in AWOL or PM's. Thanks

Hotrodtractor · Jan 27, 2012

Watching this. I think there is merit to discussion about this - but I also think this is a real slippery slope to go down without permission of the parties tuning that you want to release......

Gearhead · Jan 28, 2012

MRT1 said:
Well to be fair Matt you did not mind when it was DP-Tuners maps being posted. I did not notice you posting that being uncool. However this thread is about technical discussion and please feel free to chime in.

I don't know what you mean by that. I think I've been pretty silent on this. I just heard that someone was posting tuning tables so I looked around to see what the hell was going on. I just don't want to give any clues to anyone else for free. I have nothing to hide with my timing tables and I feel no need to limit total electrical timing but I do on SOME calibrations that don't have to have extreme cold weather manners to be sure something doesn't go haywire with timing if the eot sensor wigs out.

I really don't care if you give timing tables but I am warning you that if any of my other tricks get in the open, I won't be as nice. I don't expect the average customer to comprehend what's on my chips much less post it out in the open. I'd bet if you can't follow my tuning methodology or have a true understanding of how all all the fuel parameters and other factors come I to play, they are just pretty graphs that look different than how ford let it leave the factory.

MRT1 · Jan 28, 2012

Gearhead said:
I don't know what you mean by that. I think I've been pretty silent on this. I just heard that someone was posting tuning tables so I looked around to see what the hell was going on. I just don't want to give any clues to anyone else for free. I have nothing to hide with my timing tables and I feel no need to limit total electrical timing but I do on SOME calibrations that don't have to have extreme cold weather manners to be sure something doesn't go haywire with timing if the eot sensor wigs out.

I really don't care if you give timing tables but I am warning you that if any of my other tricks get in the open, I won't be as nice. I don't expect the average customer to comprehend what's on my chips much less post it out in the open. I'd bet if you can't follow my tuning methodology or have a true understanding of how all all the fuel parameters and other factors come I to play, they are just pretty graphs that look different than how ford let it leave the factory.

Matt,

Thank you for you technical response and contribution to the thread.