DD clutch for a ZF6 What do you all use?

[hwrdbd]

I ordered a valiar DD two weeks ago, finally supposed to be here tmrw. Can't wait, I need to get my truck down off the stands... I'll let you know how it handles once I get it back together.

 

[powerstrokenstang]

Organic or sintered iron disc are your best bet then pick a plate load. I would do sintered iron and like a 3600 or 3850.

 

[tensixniner]

You might be better off to call and talk to South Bend directly about your truck and how your going to use it. Their website doesn't seem to get updated very often.
They can mix and match parts to build you a clutch, the specific part number if there is one may not be listed on the website.

For example ...
http://southbendclutch.com/images/sdd-df_announcement.jpg

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

I ordered a valiar DD two weeks ago, finally supposed to be here tmrw. Can't wait, I need to get my truck down off the stands... I'll let you know how it handles once I get it back together.

You do that for me!! What Valiar DD did you go with?

Organic or sintered iron disc are your best bet then pick a plate load. I would do sintered iron and like a 3600 or 3850.

Why would you do sintered Iron? And with that pressure plate? With only a couple hooks per year i would not think i should need that. But then I have never done it before. If you could tell me your reasons that would be great!

Thanks.

You might be better off to call and talk to South Bend directly about your truck and how your going to use it. Their website doesn't seem to get updated very often.
They can mix and match parts to build you a clutch, the specific part number if there is one may not be listed on the website.

For example ...
http://southbendclutch.com/images/sdd-df_announcement.jpg

Calling southbend would be a good way to go. They could tell me really fast what is needed. What i was looking for is the been there done that type of deal. The only way to do that is go to the guys that run them the way i am looking to. I really do not want a heavy pedal.

Nice clutch you showed. To bad you can get it for the fords!

Thanks!

 

[powerstrokenstang]

Even a 3850 pp has a stock type feel. The sintered iron is much less grabby than ceramic but handles being slipped off and heat so much better. Ceramic will fly to pieces hooked to a sled and slipped at 4k. As far a plate load i wouldn go under 3600, the old 3250's would be fine but seems they have changed and dont take power as well. Could be cause everyone has went to diapham pp's. sintered iron will squeal sometimes but even in a stock obs a 3850 sinter iron is not terribly grabby.

 

[Dieselfever]

I

Even a 3850 pp has a stock type feel. The sintered iron is much less grabby than ceramic but handles being slipped off and heat so much better. Ceramic will fly to pieces hooked to a sled and slipped at 4k. As far a plate load i wouldn go under 3600, the old 3250's would be fine but seems they have changed and dont take power as well. Could be cause everyone has went to diapham pp's. sintered iron will squeal sometimes but even in a stock obs a 3850 sinter iron is not terribly grabby.

He beat me to it, but I was going to suggest sintered iron too. It is more durable than ceramic or feramic material. Both of my trucks have Sintered Iron clutches in them (One Haisley the other SBC) I have had the Haisley street puller in my '97 since Aug '08 and have towed, tried one sled pull, and done numerous boosted launches with it. My pulling truck has the SBC 4200 and it has over 55 hooks on it and is great to drive on the street IMO pedal pressure is maybe slightly more than a stock clutch

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

So the Sintered iron will work good towing to?? Even heavy loads?? If they are a better clutch then i will look into them to.

The reason I am asking all these questions is so I do not buy a clutch then regret it soon after words!


Thanks for the information and keep it coming!!

ON EDIT: What have you done with your hydraulic to work with the higher clutch load? SBC says it is required to upgrade the Hydraulics.

..

 

[Dieselfever]

I have hauled my pulling truck on our dual tandem gooseneck, which I believe grosses around 22k-23k lbs. My '97 has 3.55 gears so I just use Low range when back, but it isn't mandatory. Taking off heavy is nice because I will bring it up to 1000-1200 rpm and just slip the clutch to get going. As for the Hydraulics, that I think refers to Dodges as I don't know of any upgraded hydraulics for Fords.

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Thanks again for the information! If you dont rev it up will it stall?

 

[psduser1]

Powerstroke cowboy, I paid less than a grand. It is noisy in neutral, for sure!
This is behind stock injectors, however, hopefully, I'll have a set of 300/200s in front of it within the next month! As well as compound air.
This isn't a racer by any stretch, but its routinely hooked to big weight on the street, 14-20k. My problems are the gearbox behind it.
Lincolnlocker, it was clutch dynamics, and I think you and I had similar conversations regarding clutch quality.

 

[Dieselfever]

Thanks again for the information! If you dont rev it up will it stall?

It's just easier to take off with a heavier load like that, you could let it out slower and easier without revving up but it takes longer to get going.

 

[lincolnlocker]

Powerstroke cowboy, I paid less than a grand. It is noisy in neutral, for sure!
This is behind stock injectors, however, hopefully, I'll have a set of 300/200s in front of it within the next month! As well as compound air.
This isn't a racer by any stretch, but its routinely hooked to big weight on the street, 14-20k. My problems are the gearbox behind it.
Lincolnlocker, it was clutch dynamics, and I think you and I had similar conversations regarding clutch quality.

haha, small world aint it.... dan has a ton of info in his melon!! yes i would say we had the same info relayed to us.. i cant wait to see how your clutch reacts with the 300/200s either....

what these guys also say about the sintered iron and other stuff is true too... with that being said i spent a cool 1 thousand dollar bill so i will be able to put what i saved into different pucks if need be.. mine is only loud when the clutch is pushed in.

also i noticed that when in fourth gear, the truck not the clutch, has one hell of a wine to it when i lug it slightly.. it was there before but now its way louder.... but like i said it more than likely is the slipjoint/ujoint problem i have but it definitely amplified it..
live life full throttle

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Powerstroke cowboy, I paid less than a grand. It is noisy in neutral, for sure!
This is behind stock injectors, however, hopefully, I'll have a set of 300/200s in front of it within the next month! As well as compound air.
This isn't a racer by any stretch, but its routinely hooked to big weight on the street, 14-20k. My problems are the gearbox behind it.
Lincolnlocker, it was clutch dynamics, and I think you and I had similar conversations regarding clutch quality.

Will be waiting to see how your clutch holds up. Sounds like a good price for a clutch!!

Just dont think I would like the noise. Never cared for clutch noise.

I might have to check and see if they have a quit clutch.

It's just easier to take off with a heavier load like that, you could let it out slower and easier without revving up but it takes
longer to get going.

The reason i asked is i thought maybe the clutch just grabbed so quick you had to rev it to get it to slip a little. My parents pickup is like that to. For some reason my pickup you can just about pop the clutch on pavement in first gear and it will just take right off with a load. They most of the time form 10k to 25k every now and then i hit 30k not counting the pickup..

I will be looking into the SI SB clutches.

haha, small world aint it.... dan has a ton of info in his melon!! yes i would say we had the same info relayed to us.. i cant wait to see how your clutch reacts with the 300/200s either....

what these guys also say about the sintered iron and other stuff is true too... with that being said i spent a cool 1 thousand dollar bill so i will be able to put what i saved into different pucks if need be.. mine is only loud when the clutch is pushed in.

also i noticed that when in fourth gear, the truck not the clutch, has one hell of a wine to it when i lug it slightly.. it was there before but now its way louder.... but like i said it more than likely is the slipjoint/ujoint problem i have but it definitely amplified it..
live life full throttle

I might go with a Sintered iron clutch. Would be nice to not destroy one.




I am thinking I am just going to call SB and see if they can put a clutch together that fits my wants.

Thanks for the information guys!!! keep it coming!!!

 

[earlybroncoboy]

i am running a valair feramic dual 3850 and so far its been good had a few issues with the flywheel, sent me one for ceramic linings, but there costumer service is awesome and got me straightened out right away. I have hooked it once and done some boosted launches no slipping. and seems good for daily driving. plan on hooking it a lot this summer so we will see.

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Have you ever tried to tow with it yet? This is the main thing I am concerned about.

Other then letting the clutch out at 4000 rpms without a problem..

 

[strokin'_tatsch]

Ceramic will fly to pieces hooked to a sled and slipped at 4k.

Ceramic won't or at least shouldn't fly apart when slipped @ 4k with a sled. Been there and done it. Ceramic will NOT take those launches as many times as sintered iron, but it will do it. The ceramic will just get to a point where it will slip after too many big launches whereas sintered iron is able to withstand more slipping without losing it's coefficient of friction.

I do agree though.. If your going to be doing a lot of 3rd or 4th gear launches at 4,000 RPM, just get sintered iron. Ceramic will do it, but iron will do it longer and you'll get quite a few more launches out of it. I think I've gotten around 15 4k RPM launches out of my ceramic, but I don't think it will take many more of those. The last one I did, it felt like it started to slip a little, but it's still holding with normal launches and normal street driving/towing. I don't think it will take many more launches before needing a rebuild.

 

[Charles]

Since the OP isn't planning on building a trailer queen sled puller, I feel like someone should mention that a clutch that will hold ACTUAL power in the ranges being thrown around describing these clutch ratings will drive like fresh dog sh*t smells on a hot summer day.

9.8 times out of 10 a guy driving a dual disc on the street that says it has great shifting and driving manners makes NO POWER. How many responses in this thread were STOCK injectors? LOL How many of the others have pulled even 500 to the ground on a legit dyno?

I can put together a single disc that will hold 500 wheel ALL DAY LONG, and shift better and quicker than a stock clutch for ~350 bucks! Will it hold ACTUAL power? NO. Above 500 to 550 and all bets are off. Time for a torque converter or dual disc that simply WEIGHS too much to shift well, but can be made to hold.

This leads to the other 0.1 times out of ten a guy running a dual disc clutch on the street that says it shifts good.... is lying, or just too ignorant to know how horrendously sh*tty his truck actually drives.

The last 0.1 times out of 10 the truck actually makes power, the clutch holds it, and the truck shifts fast and the owner rebuilds the trans often enough to keep syncros in it on every other oil change...



If you want to make the kind of power being thrown around in this thread on some of those clutch ratings and actually do it with a manual, you better get ready to shift niiiiiiiiiiiiiice and slow.... or tear your trans down pretty often when it's grinding, hanging and popping out of gear.


Fwiw, a buddy of mine with one of those "600hp" Southbend clutches pulled clean through one repeatedly at ~500hp and after they kept asking if it was a cummins and him saying no, it was a 7.3, they continued to tell him that he was not pulling through the clutch with a 7.3. So he installed another one, and proceeded to blow clean through it too.

Just so you know, those boys apparently don't ever expect you to actually make the power they rate those things to with a 7.3. I guess they hope you'll tool around on STOCK injectors at 241rwhp like a couple in this thread, lol. Boy.... that's real demanding, lol.

God dry clutches and pos plastic master/slave assemblies are the best. A nice wet, multidisc clutch with 3 frictions constantly submerged in fluid being circulated to a front-mounted cooler would be horrible.

:drool:


On Edit: And if you plan to slide the clutch AT ALL.... stay far away from ceramic. It has incredible friction to weight, but you cannot glaze it like that.

 

[strokin'_tatsch]

9.8 times out of 10 a guy driving a dual disc on the street that says it has great shifting and driving manners makes NO POWER. How many responses in this thread were STOCK injectors? LOL How many of the others have pulled even 500 to the ground on a legit dyno?

The last 0.1 times out of 10 the truck actually makes power, the clutch holds it, and the truck shifts fast and the owner rebuilds the trans often enough to keep syncros in it on every other oil change...

Not big power, but I did 518/995 on a dynojet 224xLC. Guess I'm one of the fortunate ones who can shift a dual disc.... I'm also one of the unfortunate ones with a bad 3rd gear syncro. LOL I love my manual, I love how reliable it has been (380k miles, hasn't been rebuilt), and I love that I didn't have to spend $4k+ on a trans that would hold my measly 500hp reliably.. My truck would probably be another second faster at the track with a built auto though. Thankfully I got the PCS yesterday and that project isn't far down the road. LOL

 

[Powerstroke Cowboy]

Ceramic won't or at least shouldn't fly apart when slipped @ 4k with a sled. Been there and done it. Ceramic will NOT take those launches as many times as sintered iron, but it will do it. The ceramic will just get to a point where it will slip after too many big launches whereas sintered iron is able to withstand more slipping without losing it's coefficient of friction.

I do agree though.. If your going to be doing a lot of 3rd or 4th gear launches at 4,000 RPM, just get sintered iron. Ceramic will do it, but iron will do it longer and you'll get quite a few more launches out of it. I think I've gotten around 15 4k RPM launches out of my ceramic, but I don't think it will take many more of those. The last one I did, it felt like it started to slip a little, but it's still holding with normal launches and normal street driving/towing. I don't think it will take many more launches before needing a rebuild.

Thanks for this information! All the information I can get is great!

For what I spelled out. What would you say would be a good clutch to go with?

Since the OP isn't planning on building a trailer queen sled puller, I feel like someone should mention that a clutch that will hold ACTUAL power in the ranges being thrown around describing these clutch ratings will drive like fresh dog sh*t smells on a hot summer day.

9.8 times out of 10 a guy driving a dual disc on the street that says it has great shifting and driving manners makes NO POWER. How many responses in this thread were STOCK injectors? LOL How many of the others have pulled even 500 to the ground on a legit dyno?

I can put together a single disc that will hold 500 wheel ALL DAY LONG, and shift better and quicker than a stock clutch for ~350 bucks! Will it hold ACTUAL power? NO. Above 500 to 550 and all bets are off. Time for a torque converter or dual disc that simply WEIGHS too much to shift well, but can be made to hold.

This leads to the other 0.1 times out of ten a guy running a dual disc clutch on the street that says it shifts good.... is lying, or just too ignorant to know how horrendously sh*tty his truck actually drives.

The last 0.1 times out of 10 the truck actually makes power, the clutch holds it, and the truck shifts fast and the owner rebuilds the trans often enough to keep syncros in it on every other oil change...



If you want to make the kind of power being thrown around in this thread on some of those clutch ratings and actually do it with a manual, you better get ready to shift niiiiiiiiiiiiiice and slow.... or tear your trans down pretty often when it's grinding, hanging and popping out of gear.


Fwiw, a buddy of mine with one of those "600hp" Southbend clutches pulled clean through one repeatedly at ~500hp and after they kept asking if it was a cummins and him saying no, it was a 7.3, they continued to tell him that he was not pulling through the clutch with a 7.3. So he installed another one, and proceeded to blow clean through it too.

Just so you know, those boys apparently don't ever expect you to actually make the power they rate those things to with a 7.3. I guess they hope you'll tool around on STOCK injectors at 241rwhp like a couple in this thread, lol. Boy.... that's real demanding, lol.

God dry clutches and pos plastic master/slave assemblies are the best. A nice wet, multidisc clutch with 3 frictions constantly submerged in fluid being circulated to a front-mounted cooler would be horrible.

:drool:


On Edit: And if you plan to slide the clutch AT ALL.... stay far away from ceramic. It has incredible friction to weight, but you cannot glaze it like that.

Charles Thanks for taking the time. What would you recommend for a clutch? You have a good idea of what i am looking for. I need a good towing clutch that can be launched at 4000 rpms.

What do you think would be best?

 

[tensixniner]

I have to agree with what Charles posted.

I think your asking for a lot out of a clutch ... Smooth Engagement, resonable shift speed, high rpm launches ...

At 4000 rpm your going to want an SFI approved clutch which is going to limit your choices.