DD ZF5 with Big air and fuel

[WILD_PHIL]

I could really use some power advice. what’s the biggest combo of fuel and air I can put in it and still be able to DD it.

I have a 95 F350 4x4 5 speed with 4.10s on 35s. I daily drive it and live on the gulf in TX. I’m trying to build something fun and fast, that can still tow. Fun and fast is the priority(My wife’s Truck does most of the towing). My commute is all highway and interstate.

Truck is pretty much stock with a 6 position and 178k miles on it.

What I know I need
Head studs, springs, push rods, HPOP, efuel, dual disc clutch, I/C, T4 mount, turbo and injectors.






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[superpsd]

For a DD I wouldn't go higher than a 200% nozzle. Which gives you enough fuel to still scatter a stock engine. A 300/200 is a common 600hp ish injector. That with a turbo of choice would make a fun street truck.

 

[Magnum PD]

:whs:

 

[psduser1]

Save your money on the dual disc clutch and put it towards a good automatic.

"Dual disc" and "fast" dont belong in the same sentence.
Not saying it can't be fun, but keeping everything together behind the engine will get old. Quickly!

 

[WILD_PHIL]

For a DD I wouldn't go higher than a 200% nozzle. Which gives you enough fuel to still scatter a stock engine. A 300/200 is a common 600hp ish injector. That with a turbo of choice would make a fun street truck.

300/200s is what I was leaning towards but wasn’t sure what turbo would pair good with it.


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[WILD_PHIL]

Save your money on the dual disc clutch and put it towards a good automatic.

"Dual disc" and "fast" dont belong in the same sentence.
Not saying it can't be fun, but keeping everything together behind the engine will get old. Quickly!

I should have clarified. I’m not trying to run 10s at the strip. I’d just like to have a fast fun street truck.


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[Lt.Dan]

Fast fun street truck can be defined several ways. 160cc injectors can be fast and fun, but so can 400cc injectors. I know a couple guys running 400cc/400% nozzle that still drive them on the street, but they are heavily tuned.

Find your HP goal and we can help you from there

 

[psduser1]

I should have clarified. I’m not trying to run 10s at the strip. I’d just like to have a fast fun street truck.


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I didnt misunderstand you.
Just trying to save you some headache down the road.
I've got enough stuff still on the shelf to get well over 600, and itll stay there until I swap to an auto.
I say that because I've got two trucks around 400, and I know the stuff I've replaced with that hp.
Just my.02:thumbup:

 

[WILD_PHIL]

I didnt misunderstand you.

Just trying to save you some headache down the road.

I've got enough stuff still on the shelf to get well over 600, and itll stay there until I swap to an auto.

I say that because I've got two trucks around 400, and I know the stuff I've replaced with that hp.

Just my.02:thumbup:

I didn’t know these struggled with holding power.


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[WILD_PHIL]

Fast fun street truck can be defined several ways. 160cc injectors can be fast and fun, but so can 400cc injectors. I know a couple guys running 400cc/400% nozzle that still drive them on the street, but they are heavily tuned.

Find your HP goal and we can help you from there

I’m a fan of having more than I need. I liked the idea of 400/400 because it gives you room to grow with the right supporting mods and tuning, but wasn’t sure it would be possible.

I’d like to make over 650. More power than a new ******d truck.



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[cleatus12r]

More power than a new ******d truck.

More power for far less time. The duty cycle of a 7.3L making 400+ RWHP is much shorter than a better breathing, more efficient 6.7L that can do that kind of thing ALMOST all day long without melting down.

 

[dsberman94]

Keep the turbo small so it spools. 250/200s and a 369 sxe and I have a Smokey pig until the converter unlocks or it downshifts.

 

[Petro]

My vote is some 3/2's and an S468. It will almost undoubtedly sh!t a rod out of the block at some point but it will be fun for awhile. Ive put together a handful of setups like this for local guys with manual trucks, they're fun to drive and fairly reliable. Id say as reliable as a 500+ horsepower 7.3 can be. Some also tow regularly without issue. One local OBS truck i did used 238 100 or 200's, i cant remember which, he ran the dogshi+ out of the truck forever, towed heavy, was always balls out. The trans never had an issue but it did eat up a few clutches. Dynoed middle 5's and was fun in a regular cab, last i heard he still has it and that build was in like 2014 or 15.

 

[psduser1]

I didn’t know these struggled with holding power.


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My setup doesn't struggle, that is part of the problem, lol.

More power for far less time. The duty cycle of a 7.3L making 400+ RWHP is much shorter than a better breathing, more efficient 6.7L that can do that kind of thing ALMOST all day long without melting down.

This is what I'm getting at-service life.

My vote is some 3/2's and an S468. It will almost undoubtedly sh!t a rod out of the block at some point but it will be fun for awhile. Ive put together a handful of setups like this for local guys with manual trucks, they're fun to drive and fairly reliable. Id say as reliable as a 500+ horsepower 7.3 can be. Some also tow regularly without issue. One local OBS truck i did used 238 100 or 200's, i cant remember which, he ran the dogshi+ out of the truck forever, towed heavy, was always balls out. The trans never had an issue but it did eat up a few clutches. Dynoed middle 5's and was fun in a regular cab, last i heard he still has it and that build was in like 2014 or 15.

Define "towing". I have scaled 24k, plus the truck, and I can tell you, that type of towing will eat a 7.3, if your not watching the maintenance.
Plenty of time with 10k hooked to the back, and that might be worse yet. Not enough weight to get into trouble, so let 'er eat.
It doesn't sound like Phil is doing much towing, so let's set that aside. I'll agree that it can be done, with due caution.
I really dont think hell be happy trying to build a fast-ish truck with a dual disc clutch. Imo, go to a sintered iron single disc, and build whatever power you want, starting with 400/400%. Ok maybe 3/2's.
Just allow for trans rebuild on the 5 speed. I'm guessing about 7-800 a pop.opcorn:

 

[WILD_PHIL]

My setup doesn't struggle, that is part of the problem, lol.



This is what I'm getting at-service life.





Define "towing". I have scaled 24k, plus the truck, and I can tell you, that type of towing will eat a 7.3, if your not watching the maintenance.

Plenty of time with 10k hooked to the back, and that might be worse yet. Not enough weight to get into trouble, so let 'er eat.

It doesn't sound like Phil is doing much towing, so let's set that aside. I'll agree that it can be done, with due caution.

I really dont think hell be happy trying to build a fast-ish truck with a dual disc clutch. Imo, go to a sintered iron single disc, and build whatever power you want, starting with 400/400%. Ok maybe 3/2's.

Just allow for trans rebuild on the 5 speed. I'm guessing about 7-800 a pop.opcorn:

Does it matter if the trans is new? It’s got 18k miles on it. Thanks for the input on the clutch. I’ll go that route over the dual disc.

It sounds like 300/200s will give me what I need power wise or with the right tuning I could go ahead on 400/400s. But what about the air? I’ve seen videos of guys claiming to be running 472s and 475s with big sticks swearing it’s a great combo.


I bought this truck to build something awesome. I had a whole engine build planned out and recently decided not to Cummins swap it.


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[superpsd]

400% nozzles are not the best streetable nozzle. 400s are more crack prone a few have had 400 nozzles crack on the street and most of them jumped back down to a 200% or 300% nozzle. 400% are also very finicky when it comes to tuning. If your not self tuning the truck I would stay away from 400s. Also 400/400s will likely hammer a ZF5 to death. You can run 300/200s and spray it when you want more power. Are you planning on a full engine build? At 700+ crank hp your 7.3 may not last long.

 

[Petro]

My setup doesn't struggle, that is part of the problem, lol.

This is what I'm getting at-service life.


Define "towing". I have scaled 24k, plus the truck, and I can tell you, that type of towing will eat a 7.3, if your not watching the maintenance.
Plenty of time with 10k hooked to the back, and that might be worse yet. Not enough weight to get into trouble, so let 'er eat.
It doesn't sound like Phil is doing much towing, so let's set that aside. I'll agree that it can be done, with due caution.
I really dont think hell be happy trying to build a fast-ish truck with a dual disc clutch. Imo, go to a sintered iron single disc, and build whatever power you want, starting with 400/400%. Ok maybe 3/2's.
Just allow for trans rebuild on the 5 speed. I'm guessing about 7-800 a pop.opcorn:

Loaded 24 foot stock trailers, 30 foot dual tandem flatbed loaded with other pickups, stuff like that was some of the towing I seen. It had its fair share of trouble, but a majority of it was from the shear ass kicking it took day in and day out. There's several in the area at around the 500 horsepower mark that get used for farm work daily. Several of them are pulling seed tenders and flatbeds with 12 to 14 round bales on the regular without any trouble, granted these trucks are obviously not towing in the big tune either. Some are also automatics. In all honesty, thats about the extent of the towing Id want to do with any pickup, even a 6.7. They make real trucks for towing any heavier than that.

 

[psduser1]

Loaded 24 foot stock trailers, 30 foot dual tandem flatbed loaded with other pickups, stuff like that was some of the towing I seen. It had its fair share of trouble, but a majority of it was from the shear ass kicking it took day in and day out. There's several in the area at around the 500 horsepower mark that get used for farm work daily. Several of them are pulling seed tenders and flatbeds with 12 to 14 round bales on the regular without any trouble, granted these trucks are obviously not towing in the big tune either. Some are also automatics. In all honesty, thats about the extent of the towing Id want to do with any pickup, even a 6.7. They make real trucks for towing any heavier than that.

I concur.

 

[Magnum PD]

Zeb said that the 74/83 turbine for the 468 turbo is the one to get with a. 1.0 housing.

 

[BrewTown]

Really good info here. Couple things I may add.
A dual disk clutch will engage just like a stock clutch, which is nice for towing. The pig power single clutches have more of a light switch effect. In or out. Towing with them is not ideal, especially backing. Low range can help, pretty slow though. Shifting speed however, a dual disk pretty much takes fast shifting out of the equation, and, if you try, it will beat up the syncros in the trans.

If you really have a 650+ goal, 2 scenarios I see. In reality, both need connecting rods for longevity.
1. Enough fuel for 650+, and spray to hit it.
2. Port the heads, I think Gray's Diesel is doing cams.

To me, it sounds like the T-4 and 467.7 is your go to. I think the S369 or S372, that exhaust housing gets restrictive, especially on spray.

Now, let me discredit myself by saying I've never owned or built one at that level. My ZF6 had 230/100s, 1st gen KC38R and a SBDD. I thought it was fun... Miss it, and going back!