Detuning large injector nozzles - How to pick injector size for upgrades!

[TyCorr]

Too bad you did not just switch nozzles. You are comparing 2 completely different injector sizes and types. Hard to say that it was only the nozzles that made the difference. In fact... you could have had something wrong with the first set.

Track times are only good for WOT top end power

Dyno's are much better tools to measure spool up, where you make your peak power, where power falls off, etc.

Trucks dont run the same on the dyno so it means shti to me. Ive had this truck since Oct of 2000 so Im pretty familiar with it at this point.

Since you continue to find fault with what im saying Ill break it down for you. My "performance" tune which was a step under the hot tune made like 390 some horsepower. It was the single tune i tried before the all out number I referenced. It was hot and obviously 390 hp isnt a great step down from "all she's got" on an injector that is told to go near 500hp. My "stock" tune as dynoed on several trucks produces 360-390 with 250/200s. So even at that anateur power output the 200% nozzle shines. My egts dont hit 90 Million degrees with 5ms of pw from just a spirited 0-70mph sprint. The way it drives and EVERYTHING else comes into play.

Im done with this conversation but for anyone reading this if you want decent power and dont care for sky-high heat, dont piss around with small nozzled injectors.

The smallest injector you should buy is a 238/80. Find someone that can tune and ignore crazy advice.

Edit:im testing out/breaking in gently my new built trans and as such Ive been driving on my "stock" tune for a week and a half. A guy with a stock truck who wanted a stock like truck would be enamored of the way this setup works. Its ridiculous how smooth and clean it is at ~400hp. And Im getting the best mileage this truck has EVER gotten. Hand calc'd at 19 mpg tank after tank. Thats a sign that efficiency isnt compromised when a 200% nozzle is used for <400 rwhp.

The only thing wrong with the first set was they were too small. Call Swamps and tell them their injectors weren't built right. Just make sure to record it because i know what they're going to tell you. And the injectors were sent in and had 100% nozzles put on. I lost interest in them shortly after.

 

[m_j]

I dont see the point of less then 200% nozzles.
the tuners have them nailed down

 

[TyCorr]

I dont see the point of less then 200% nozzles.
the tuners have them nailed down

Yes. Even the company that is affiliated with the OP.

 

[cjfarm111]

Wish some tuners would chime in. There advise would be appreciated. I'm sure not all tuners have them "nailed" down. Just like any other injector or mod takes a live time to make right.

 

[TyCorr]

Wish some tuners would chime in. There advise would be appreciated. I'm sure not all tuners have them "nailed" down. Just like any other injector or mod takes a live time to make right.

How can you say that? I called php four years ago and got tunes that worked right out of the box for a 250/200, big oiln built trans, 38r combo. All support mods were there. Full modded truck. The ONLY change made was stretching out shift points in the tow tune. Those tunes were great. Id still use them if they didnt get smashed with the chip they were on.

I just ordered tunes from dynoproven and they all work very well. Its a non issue buddy. Quit buying into that crap you're hearing on here.

 

[KCTurbos]

Trucks dont run the same on the dyno so it means shti to me. Ive had this truck since Oct of 2000 so Im pretty familiar with it at this point.

Since you continue to find fault with what im saying Ill break it down for you. My "performance" tune which was a step under the hot tune made like 390 some horsepower. It was the single tune i tried before the all out number I referenced. It was hot and obviously 390 hp isnt a great step down from "all she's got" on an injector that is told to go near 500hp. My "stock" tune as dynoed on several trucks produces 360-390 with 250/200s. So even at that anateur power output the 200% nozzle shines. My egts dont hit 90 Million degrees with 5ms of pw from just a spirited 0-70mph sprint. The way it drives and EVERYTHING else comes into play.

Im done with this conversation but for anyone reading this if you want decent power and dont care for sky-high heat, dont piss around with small nozzled injectors.

The smallest injector you should buy is a 238/80. Find someone that can tune and ignore crazy advice.

Edit:im testing out/breaking in gently my new built trans and as such Ive been driving on my "stock" tune for a week and a half. A guy with a stock truck who wanted a stock like truck would be enamored of the way this setup works. Its ridiculous how smooth and clean it is at ~400hp. And Im getting the best mileage this truck has EVER gotten. Hand calc'd at 19 mpg tank after tank. Thats a sign that efficiency isnt compromised when a 200% nozzle is used for <400 rwhp.

The only thing wrong with the first set was they were too small. Call Swamps and tell them their injectors weren't built right. Just make sure to record it because i know what they're going to tell you. And the injectors were sent in and had 100% nozzles put on. I lost interest in them shortly after.

Easy there buddy. You are upset because I pointed out the fact that you did not just simply switch nozzles? HMMM???


You completely changed which injectors you were using? Changed the nozzle size? Body size? And went to a hybrids? Come on??? I am not saying anything you are saying is not true. But you think a dyno test is pointless because there are just too many variables... but your experience must be a better way to show the changes that nozzles cause? LOL?


You are arguing and debating over 400hp? with 9million degress egt's and 5ms of PW? I can also show you customers running 160/stock that make that same HP level and have never had any issues with smoke/egts. Tow max weight on 37" tires, race at the track, and sled pull?

I know plenty of guys with stock injectors that get great fuel mileage. Some even claim into the 20mpg range?

 

[KCTurbos]

Wish some tuners would chime in. There advise would be appreciated. I'm sure not all tuners have them "nailed" down. Just like any other injector or mod takes a live time to make right.

They did? And left soon there after... I wonder why???

They literally work with 100s if not 1000s customers. They can tell you what works best most of the time (LOL which is the whole point of this thread).


I would suggest you contact your tuner/injector builder of choice and ask them what they think works best.

 

[dillpurdy92]

This is a good read but i am so lost now guys

1994.5 CCLB zf5

 

[cjfarm111]

That's my point. They can get fairly close "most" of the time. Not spot on. So buying big injectors are no always as easy to detune. I have talked to a few tuners and they have said 200 nozzles are tough to get idle smooth and haze down.

 

[superpsd]

My 200% nozzles idle like a stock injector on the stock tune. Only haze a slight bit when temps are cold and engine is cold but nothing extreme. No huge cloud watering my eyes like some report. Just a light haze. How come some large nozzles idle perfect and some don't? My best guess is quality and machining difference and overall build quality of the injectors. Why is it some injector builders will have a great reputation for smooth running injectors and some have a reputation of problems such and haze and poor idle. I don't think it's a coincidence. I am also not the only one who can run 200% nozzles on a stock tune and it idles great. Then some can't get 200% nozzles to idle smooth or stop the haze no matter how much they jack around the PW, ICP, or timing.

If you have 200%s not running right after multiple tuning adjustments it may be time to talk to the builder as to what parts are being used to build your set of injectors but I doubt that will go over well.

 

[Swaan]

Well you guys all rant and rave about your pis injectors.
Ive got measly 175/80 pis injectors and mine haze like crazy when cold out . They dont idle very smooth when hot either. Ive tryed everything too, multiple tuners, and everything is new under the hood so no mechanical issues. I couldnt imagine 200% nozzles.
Meh, maybe i just got a crap set of injectors and thats the nature of the beast. They make lots power and run smooth under load,But im not overly impressed with these sticks.

 

[TyCorr]

Mine dont do any of that. They don't even haze or romp WITHOUT the splitshot tuning.

There is quite a few videos already on this site of mine recently. I uploaded two more but photobucket is being slow.

You might have another issue with your truck though.

 

[Swaan]

No issue with my truck. Its the dam injectors.
I just live with it. No biggie, maybe one day ill just drop brand new ACs in it and enjoy a truck that has manners like a new stock truck.. id prob miss the balls towing thou.

 

[TyCorr]

Ive had those injectors before. Mine didnt do that. They just didnt make any real power.

 

[Swaan]

Well if it matters i did just get the reman ones, not the brand new ones. Idk, i think mine have had issues from the get go. I should of been more diligent and sent them back to pis in the beginning. You know how it is thou,life gets busy and before you know it a couple years go by..lol

 

[TyCorr]

I guess.

Ive heard that 160/30s have an issue in manual trucks but not any other combo of barrel/plunger/nozzle and only in manual super duty trucks. If 175/80s were hazing at idle id have sent them back immediately. Unless I found something that was causing idle resolution issues. Like an idm perhaps.

 

[cjfarm111]

Mine hazes a tad when it's cold cold but clears up fast. When warm zero haze

 

[jeremiahmercier]

I had zero haze when warm with 175/100s, a little when cold

06-6.0l, CCLB 4X4, studded, reworked heads, egr gone, cab reroute, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, updated dummy plugs, stand pipe, and stc fitting; New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, powermax turbo, and Geerhead tunes, 325/65R18

 

[jeremiahmercier]

Well if it matters i did just get the reman ones, not the brand new ones. Idk, i think mine have had issues from the get go. I should of been more diligent and sent them back to pis in the beginning. You know how it is thou,life gets busy and before you know it a couple years go by..lol

How is the idle quality though? Also, don't forget, the obs pcm tended to idle choppy after a hard pull when towing, or playing around with it. A lot of guys have swapped in SD pcm and say it No longer does the choppy idle...

It may have made a difference on mine that it was Jody's tunes, I know a lot don't like him, but that truck flat out towed and ran like a beast. I also don't remember what family he flashed my pcm to,but I know he changed it

06-6.0l, CCLB 4X4, studded, reworked heads, egr gone, cab reroute, blue spring mod, 6.4 banjos, updated dummy plugs, stand pipe, and stc fitting; New oil cooler, New ipr, New icp, atlas 40 FICM, powermax turbo, and Geerhead tunes, 325/65R18

 

[Gearhead]

Stock OBS trucks will haze when cold... one of the reasons ford went to split shots....