Don't like Egt's after build

sootie

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So I wouldn't benefit from sending stock chargers to someone like Border, and best would be to buy like mentioned ^ about 71-2/59? Address dual fuellers 1st?

Yes. getting Barder to make them into a 73/59 set will make a drastic difference. the truck will be mids 700s for sure


That being said, getting the atmo into the 75-76 range will be your best bet and put you around 800hp with dual fuelers.

on edit: i always put turbo upgrades before fuel. seeing as you have too much fuel already, the turbo upgrades should be before dual pumps. Either way-you arent getting out of doing dual fuelers.
 
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StrokiNDieseL

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Yes. getting Barder to make them into a 73/59 set will make a drastic difference. the truck will be mids 700s for sure


That being said, getting the atmo into the 75-76 range will be your best bet and put you around 800hp with dual fuelers.

on edit: i always put turbo upgrades before fuel. seeing as you have too much fuel already, the turbo upgrades should be before dual pumps. Either way-you arent getting out of doing dual fuelers.

Appreciate it :rockon:
 

StrokiNDieseL

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Well Chit, Stock turbos need to go up F/S but hell I'd prob won't make crap for just wheel/balanced replacement over selling stock?
 

Charles

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At higher than stock power levels bigger (faster) nozzles will always run cooler power per power until you get ridiculously large.

But if you go to a larger nozzle and don't cut the injection duration back appropriately, then you're not at the same power, you're at much more power. Don't ever swap to a smaller nozzle to cool an engine off. Drop the pulsewidth. Injection pressure will rise, the time the injector is spent on and spraying will drop and the EGT will drop.

This is why every diesel manufacturer on the planet goes to a larger nozzle when similar engines have higher power ratings. They need to keep the injection window short.

All this guys needs to do is cut the pw back.

If you took a bone stock truck, installed the biggest set of injectors you could find but tuned the truck to make EXACTLY the same power as it did with stock injectors in it the truck would run cooler with the larger injectors at full power. Down at lower power it would run hotter if the larger nozzles didn't atomize as well.
 

StrokiNDieseL

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At higher than stock power levels bigger (faster) nozzles will always run cooler power per power until you get ridiculously large.

But if you go to a larger nozzle and don't cut the injection duration back appropriately, then you're not at the same power, you're at much more power. Don't ever swap to a smaller nozzle to cool an engine off. Drop the pulsewidth. Injection pressure will rise, the time the injector is spent on and spraying will drop and the EGT will drop.

This is why every diesel manufacturer on the planet goes to a larger nozzle when similar engines have higher power ratings. They need to keep the injection window short.

All this guys needs to do is cut the pw back.



If you took a bone stock truck, installed the biggest set of injectors you could find but tuned the truck to make EXACTLY the same power as it did with stock injectors in it the truck would run cooler with the larger injectors at full power. Down at lower power it would run hotter if the larger nozzles didn't atomize as well.

I'll ask, thanks for taken the time to educate. Jayson
 

sootie

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At higher than stock power levels bigger (faster) nozzles will always run cooler power per power until you get ridiculously large.

But if you go to a larger nozzle and don't cut the injection duration back appropriately, then you're not at the same power, you're at much more power. Don't ever swap to a smaller nozzle to cool an engine off. Drop the pulsewidth. Injection pressure will rise, the time the injector is spent on and spraying will drop and the EGT will drop.

This is why every diesel manufacturer on the planet goes to a larger nozzle when similar engines have higher power ratings. They need to keep the injection window short.

All this guys needs to do is cut the pw back.

If you took a bone stock truck, installed the biggest set of injectors you could find but tuned the truck to make EXACTLY the same power as it did with stock injectors in it the truck would run cooler with the larger injectors at full power. Down at lower power it would run hotter if the larger nozzles didn't atomize as well.

you are correct. To clarify, i was trying to help him find ways to get the most out of what he has-not just subsist.
 

Charles

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His fuel is fine where its at, he just doesn't have enough air to burn it all is his problem.

Cutting pulsewidth costs $0.00 and requires nothing to be changed on the truck. For the hardware on the truck now, reducing injection duration is probably the answer.

Unless it's a big pita to have the program altered or something.

A lot of times a pw reduction will make the same or similar power with a tremendous drop in smoke and EGT. Sometimes it will make more power, especially if he's dropping rail real bad. Most times it will have better response as well and drive "crisper".

Point being, the sentiment seemed to be that he shouldn't have gone to XXX injector size with Y and Z compressors because there's "too much fuel" for that turbo setup, when in my experience the opposite is true. As the power comes up, power per power with the exact same turbo setup, the larger injectors will always run cooler because they can drop the fuel in the hole right now instead of spraying through an extended window creating a laggy event that builds heat. You can also usually lower the timing easing the strain and still be running cooler because the faster injector doesn't have to start spraying so early in order to get the fuel in the hole on time.

I'll go re-read the thread to make sure I understood the OP's issue, but I thought it was just heat.
 

SEABEE08FX4

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Totally defeats the purpose for added fuel, more fuel more air more power. No point in adding more fuel without more air, and no point in adding more fuel and pulling it back to keep power the same and egt lower. If you're already half way there might as well go all the way or pull the nozzles and extra pump off and sell them.
 

Charles

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Totally defeats the purpose for added fuel, more fuel more air more power. No point in adding more fuel without more air, and no point in adding more fuel and pulling it back to keep power the same and egt lower. If you're already half way there might as well go all the way or pull the nozzles and extra pump off and sell them.


I watched Darrin Morrison pull low to mid 700 or so on fuel one particular day, rolling massive coal, I mean blotting the sun from the sky. I asked what that was all about and he was saying how the problem was the tiny ass injectors. I was thinking damn.... you're saying the problem was not enough fuel....

He looked at me strange. After he swapped to bigger injectors and later pulled a little over 920 on fuel with way less smoke I understood. The problem was how long it was taking to get the fuel in the hole.

A small nozzle will make less power all while smoking like a train, running hot and consuming resources.


Going to a faster injector doesn't mean injecting more fuel quantity. You can inject the same quantity far faster, make more power on the same fuel (because the window is more efficient) smoke less and run cooler. So yes, there are very good reasons to run a large injector and dial the duration back. Most of the time the programs are way too stretched out in the first place because they were meant to stretch the slow stock nozzles out to try and get fuel in the hole. It's not so much that you need to dial the fuel down, more just put it back where it was supposed to be before you started dragging everything out trying to get a stock nozzle to perform a task it's too slow to do efficiently. Sadly, if you just removed the program and went back to stock you would probably be pretty damn close! Although driveability at lower desired power would be jumpy as hell.

If always dragging out the smaller nozzles was the answer instead of a larger nozzle at shorter duration then you wouldn't see OEM decisions on the subject use larger nozzles for higher output versions of engines instead of just pushing harder and harder on the same nozzle size each time. Sometimes there's enough reserve on a stock nozzle to accommodate modest power increases without becoming inefficient, but as the power climbs, it doesn't take much before a larger nozzle will win on power, smoke and EGT all at the same time. Otherwise the stock nozzle was spec'd to big for the intended power in the first place. Nozzles are picked for efficiency at a given power.

"More fuel" as a concept is the problem. It's one dimensional. The problem is fuel per time. 400cc of fuel over 20 degrees of crank travel is quite a different animal than 400cc of fuel over 40 degrees of crank, yet each one uses the EXACT SAME amount of resources from the pump, while one makes tons more power at lower EGT with less smoke!

The same fuel happening quicker is worth its weight in gold.
 
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SEABEE08FX4

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On these truck ( 6.4 ) if you got more fuel than air your going to run hot, period. Especially if you're using stockish turbos and no wastegate.
 

Charles

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On these truck ( 6.4 ) if you got more fuel than air your going to run hot, period. Especially if you're using stockish turbos and no wastegate.

"More fuel" again, lol.

I guess fuel is always injected over the exact same crank window in your mind. You only inject "more" or "less" of it, never alter the rate of injection independent of quantity delivered. Just run the same program, calling for the same duration and swap nozzles. Problem being, the program is probably way stretched out forcing you to pick nozzles too small for the desired power each time.

People like to struggle.

Oh well. Horse.... Water.... Peace...

:toast:
 

mustube

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Charles is saying that thinking of larger nozzles as more fuel isn't a good concept. 800hp on 60% nozzles and 800hp on 150% nozzles is a huge difference in EGTs with the same turbos, fuel pumps and motor.
 

SEABEE08FX4

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I'm saying there is no point in having more fuel ( potential being twin pumps and larger nozzles ) and not having the air to burn it. That's like ordering shoes three sizes too big then stuffing something down in it to fill the space, whats he point? Anyone can add larger nozzles and an extra pump, trim back on the fuel and keep egt's in check all while making little to no gain in power. But whats the point, if you add more fuel add more air too. No point in half assing it is what I'm saying.
 

SEABEE08FX4

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Charles is saying that thinking of larger nozzles as more fuel isn't a good concept. 800hp on 60% nozzles and 800hp on 150% nozzles is a huge difference in EGTs with the same turbos, fuel pumps and motor.

I get that, it's not what I'm saying however. I'm saying no point in adding the larger nozzle if your not able to use the potential it has. You'll never get the use out of it with stock turbos. And no point in trimming back fuel because you have too much nozzle to keep things cool. Just add more air to cover the amount of fueling potential and you make more power and have less EGT issues.
 

StrokiNDieseL

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Thanks again ALL, ton of info that's much appreciated. I went into this wanting border turbos but was talked into wheel/nozzles instead. Although I did research adding nozzles by themselves would do chit to stock (but someone always knows more) chargers..

So to clearing this up, adding turbos would be my best bet before dual pumps or just removing nozzles to reduce heat? And yes on H&S it was smokey as all hell so that why I did a revision w/GH which is cleaner but hot. Thanks again everyone, Jayson.
 

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