Dyno Tune
- Thread starter Sixfoh
- Start date
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Not trying to be a jerk. That is not my intent with posting. There is a thread that is active right now that has a 6.4L that has been a test bed for turbos. That thing has been "dyno" tuned many times. I believe the person, entity doing the tunes is mentioned in the thread.
Check it out and see what you find. With the way the EeeeePppppAaaaaa has been the last few years you pretty much have to do some sleuthing to find what you want/need. I wish this was not the case. But finding this stuff online is almost impossible without really digging in.
As a side note. What all is done to the pickup? Feel free to post up pictures.
Check it out and see what you find. With the way the EeeeePppppAaaaaa has been the last few years you pretty much have to do some sleuthing to find what you want/need. I wish this was not the case. But finding this stuff online is almost impossible without really digging in.
As a side note. What all is done to the pickup? Feel free to post up pictures.
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Thank you for the reply. There was no negative tone but it was nice of you to address it up front.
I have actually read/replied and followed that thread you mentioned. It really has been informative and part of the driving factor in me wanting custom calibrations. I have actually reached out to that entity who is mentioned. We had worked on setting up a date for some time and gone back and forth with communication. Just recently when i called to schedule the date, we went over some of the trucks mods. Particularly the dual fueler setup on the truck caused the entity to hesitate and ultimately back out of the project. It seems that the K16/CP3 dual fueler setup is difficult and too time consuming. It is worth mentioning i so not hold a grudge, their decision was purely business based. But i will say i am disappointed. They came highly recommended from my trans builder, warren. After seeing that thread too I was all the more invested. Here we are though, im on the hunt for someone new an reliable. I do know the big names, the ones that dont advertise and such and it seems no one either wants to deal with this generation truck or the configuration I have built.
I think the truck deserves a post all on its own to describe the build. But to give you an idea, i would say its a true stage 2 build. Engine has been rebuilt(my garage) .010 over, HD delipped flycut coated pistons, stage 2 billet cam, billet pushrods, bulletproof diesel waterpump, KDD oring heads, 100lbs valve springs, 59mm/72mm turbos, tank sump, fass lpfp, dual fuelers K16/CP3, regulated fuel return, 60% over injectors, ported fuel rails, new rocker assemblies, billet manton valve bridges, ARP studs or bolts throughout(heads, bedplate, connecting rods etc...) all sensors and internal harnesses updated, normal weightloss components youd expect on a race truck, warren full billet transmission, billet flexplate, cci 5" aluminum driveshaft, pmf traction bars. Mishimoto radiator, intercooler, trans cooler, ccv reroute/catch can and their cross member support.
I have a list that could go in depth, but this gives you an idea.
I have actually read/replied and followed that thread you mentioned. It really has been informative and part of the driving factor in me wanting custom calibrations. I have actually reached out to that entity who is mentioned. We had worked on setting up a date for some time and gone back and forth with communication. Just recently when i called to schedule the date, we went over some of the trucks mods. Particularly the dual fueler setup on the truck caused the entity to hesitate and ultimately back out of the project. It seems that the K16/CP3 dual fueler setup is difficult and too time consuming. It is worth mentioning i so not hold a grudge, their decision was purely business based. But i will say i am disappointed. They came highly recommended from my trans builder, warren. After seeing that thread too I was all the more invested. Here we are though, im on the hunt for someone new an reliable. I do know the big names, the ones that dont advertise and such and it seems no one either wants to deal with this generation truck or the configuration I have built.
I think the truck deserves a post all on its own to describe the build. But to give you an idea, i would say its a true stage 2 build. Engine has been rebuilt(my garage) .010 over, HD delipped flycut coated pistons, stage 2 billet cam, billet pushrods, bulletproof diesel waterpump, KDD oring heads, 100lbs valve springs, 59mm/72mm turbos, tank sump, fass lpfp, dual fuelers K16/CP3, regulated fuel return, 60% over injectors, ported fuel rails, new rocker assemblies, billet manton valve bridges, ARP studs or bolts throughout(heads, bedplate, connecting rods etc...) all sensors and internal harnesses updated, normal weightloss components youd expect on a race truck, warren full billet transmission, billet flexplate, cci 5" aluminum driveshaft, pmf traction bars. Mishimoto radiator, intercooler, trans cooler, ccv reroute/catch can and their cross member support.
I have a list that could go in depth, but this gives you an idea.
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Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Sounds like you have put your time in and have a solid build that could make a lot of power with the right tuning.
I wonder why nobody will touch it since it has a CP3 pump as the second pump? There is a company out there that makes that setup. I wonder if you got your from R####C$$$$$$D? They sell the kit to use a CP3 as the second pump. They should have the ability to get you lined up with tuning.
I hope you find somebody to do you tuning. This is my fear if I go beyond stock fuel level. At that point I may have to go the self tune route.
I wonder why nobody will touch it since it has a CP3 pump as the second pump? There is a company out there that makes that setup. I wonder if you got your from R####C$$$$$$D? They sell the kit to use a CP3 as the second pump. They should have the ability to get you lined up with tuning.
I hope you find somebody to do you tuning. This is my fear if I go beyond stock fuel level. At that point I may have to go the self tune route.
From what I understand the cp3 as the second pump is very difficult to tune due to the controls for it. With dual k16s there is a jumper harness so both pcvs and vcvs are controlled the same. The cp3 seems to be either full fuel or no fuel thru the limitations of the factory computer which is fine for racing only, but not so good for driveability
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Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Ok, gotcha. That makes perfect sense. Thank you for explaining that to me.
Hey guys, sorry i didnt respond sooner.
The dual fueler kit is through the vendor you mentioned. I have asked who they recommend for dialing it in and there is no response via email, ill need to call. But i believe they avoided this question in the past to some extent. What i do remember is their theory behind the kit is that the factory mounted K16 will self regulate the pressure and volume of both pumps. Since the cp3 is not electrically controlled in this application, (older attempts have failed using other electrical connections for controlling), it runs at full fuel and the metering of fuel is left solely up to the K16. I will say this is possible and has been how my truck has been running for two years very well. I wouldnt slam the driveability as it only has issues in unique circumstance, you can find this in my other threads.
Whats funny is the programming i run most of the time has a parameter for dual fueler with the K16/CP3 setup. It works well as ive mentioned. However ive also run files without this parameter present, computer assuming one K16 is responsible for high pressure fuel and these work almost just as well. This sort of validates the vendors theory about the factory mounted K16 being able to self regulate the pair.
Where im at is, i have a great base file that is almost 100 percent perfect in terms of driveability, but could use minor refinements. I would also like to build a file to maximize performance on track day. As well as a file with good power and safety parameters for towing. Perhaps even an economy setting might be useful too. The former two being my highest priority.
The dual fueler kit is through the vendor you mentioned. I have asked who they recommend for dialing it in and there is no response via email, ill need to call. But i believe they avoided this question in the past to some extent. What i do remember is their theory behind the kit is that the factory mounted K16 will self regulate the pressure and volume of both pumps. Since the cp3 is not electrically controlled in this application, (older attempts have failed using other electrical connections for controlling), it runs at full fuel and the metering of fuel is left solely up to the K16. I will say this is possible and has been how my truck has been running for two years very well. I wouldnt slam the driveability as it only has issues in unique circumstance, you can find this in my other threads.
Whats funny is the programming i run most of the time has a parameter for dual fueler with the K16/CP3 setup. It works well as ive mentioned. However ive also run files without this parameter present, computer assuming one K16 is responsible for high pressure fuel and these work almost just as well. This sort of validates the vendors theory about the factory mounted K16 being able to self regulate the pair.
Where im at is, i have a great base file that is almost 100 percent perfect in terms of driveability, but could use minor refinements. I would also like to build a file to maximize performance on track day. As well as a file with good power and safety parameters for towing. Perhaps even an economy setting might be useful too. The former two being my highest priority.
Ive also heard people attempt to perfect this setup with a black box of sorts. Something independent of the factory computer. For example, using RPM or Load% to directly or inversely control the cp3. Such operations could be compared to a microprocessor.
If im not mistaken the cp3 on my truck is from an LBZ/LMM duramax. If i knew the voltage sweep that those generation duramax engines command for given pressures, i could compare this to how the k16 operates in similar conditions. The rest would be fairly easy.
I believe these cp3s work 0-5V, 0V being full tilt, all the fuel. Then increasing voltage to the regulator bleeds off pressure respectively.
If im not mistaken the cp3 on my truck is from an LBZ/LMM duramax. If i knew the voltage sweep that those generation duramax engines command for given pressures, i could compare this to how the k16 operates in similar conditions. The rest would be fairly easy.
I believe these cp3s work 0-5V, 0V being full tilt, all the fuel. Then increasing voltage to the regulator bleeds off pressure respectively.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Just a thought. The TPS in some of the fords run in a 0-5 volt range. I wonder if you could set it up to run off throttle position that way?
Either way. I hope you are able to find someone able/willing to tune it.
Sounds like its not to bad if a setup. Just need to work around a given parameter.
Either way. I hope you are able to find someone able/willing to tune it.
Sounds like its not to bad if a setup. Just need to work around a given parameter.
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You know its funny you mention TPS, i think that would be a great candidate to use. I believe it has three sensors within the assembly and they cross reference one another to verify accuracy. I believe two go from 0-5V, parallel with one another and the last one goes from 5V-0.
I did a little digging around last night for the voltage parameters on the LBZ/LML pump and found some conflicting information, or i got side tracked and confused information. Either way, the two styles i saw for the cp3s FCA were 5V or 12V on the positive wire. I need to verify which it is. But both seemed consistent in the fact that power was a constant supply and ground was used in a pulse to control the units pressure. If the ground is not present, there is a OL condition, the FCA is closed, which results in max pressure/full tilt. This is currently my situation since i have no electrical connected to my cp3. When ground is introduced full time, the circuit makes full voltage, either 5V or 12V(still unsure) and the pressure is at its minimum, FCA wide open. Pulsing of the ground from my understand limits voltage to get the spaces in between. Finding these charts and sweeps i think is critical to dial in the cp3. However if i get the basic premise down, like appropriate voltage, i can probably get a pretty basic algorithm loaded onto a microprocessor and start with that.
0V-5V basic system example:
5V or 4.8V @ Idle (possible concerns of low pressure here if too much voltage is applied. Will the K16 backfeed the CP3 if the FCA commanded too far open?)
4V @ 20% Throttle
3V @ 40% Throttle
2V @ 60% Throttle
1V @ 80% Throttle
0V @ WOT (i dont see any concerns here)
I did a little digging around last night for the voltage parameters on the LBZ/LML pump and found some conflicting information, or i got side tracked and confused information. Either way, the two styles i saw for the cp3s FCA were 5V or 12V on the positive wire. I need to verify which it is. But both seemed consistent in the fact that power was a constant supply and ground was used in a pulse to control the units pressure. If the ground is not present, there is a OL condition, the FCA is closed, which results in max pressure/full tilt. This is currently my situation since i have no electrical connected to my cp3. When ground is introduced full time, the circuit makes full voltage, either 5V or 12V(still unsure) and the pressure is at its minimum, FCA wide open. Pulsing of the ground from my understand limits voltage to get the spaces in between. Finding these charts and sweeps i think is critical to dial in the cp3. However if i get the basic premise down, like appropriate voltage, i can probably get a pretty basic algorithm loaded onto a microprocessor and start with that.
0V-5V basic system example:
5V or 4.8V @ Idle (possible concerns of low pressure here if too much voltage is applied. Will the K16 backfeed the CP3 if the FCA commanded too far open?)
4V @ 20% Throttle
3V @ 40% Throttle
2V @ 60% Throttle
1V @ 80% Throttle
0V @ WOT (i dont see any concerns here)
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
I do believe that if you can find the right information you could sat it up as you mentioned. I would also think you would want to install fule pressure gauge on the cp3 to know what you are making.
At the least you could just set it up.to.run half speed. Then go all out after a set throttle position.
Either way I think it would work. Also running the pump wide open all the time I feel would over work the pump, and other components.
At the least you could just set it up.to.run half speed. Then go all out after a set throttle position.
Either way I think it would work. Also running the pump wide open all the time I feel would over work the pump, and other components.
I was curious about the river city kit, most of my 6.4 build is from them rods injectors cam etc. I thought about twin fuelers as I have a spare low mile Ford K16 I even went as far as fabbing a bracket while motor was on the stand just never got the time to machine a pulley and get someone to make the necessary lines. I could build the kit myself cnc time included for a 3rd of what they’re asking for them, mine would probably be nicer to boot as my engineering background and pickiness would kick in.
