external waste gate setup on 6.0

[Dieselmore]

Would like to get some input from those running external gates on their 6.0. This particular truck will be running a single S475 (83/.90ar) and 430/150 hybrids, but will be receiving some nitrous (.125 jet). I'm a bit worried about drive pressure, so looking at running an external wastegate(s). I have looked at a lot of different options for wastegate setups like CED in the location of the egr cooler port. I have the irate t4 pipes, but will modify them if needed. I also spoke with Charlie at KC turbos when he was at our shop, and discussed running twin gates right off each manifold/header. My thought is with the CED style running off only one side, with diveded pipes, will this only reduce drive pressure effeciently on one bank? I'd like to get input on those running external gates on sizing, location, and what your using for boost controller. Thanks for the help guys

 

[Six_Sloww]

Even if you reduce drive on only one bank the pressure equalizes in the turbo, it's actually really effective.

Only reason for twin gates IMO would be a compound arrangement with a really small atmosphere charger and a huge low pressure, In this setup one gate may not be able to relieve enough drive pressure.

For your application a single and spray one gate will work well

 

[Six_Sloww]

These are pretty nice:
http://www.hallmanboostcontroller.com

 

[Dieselmore]

That's kinda what I was thinking. What would be a good size waste gate to run, and what spring. I haven't really messed with external wastegates, so the whole spring size and how to set up boost controller with the gate is new to me. I was kinda thinking like a 44mm or 50mm

 

[Extended Power]

I run an AMS-1000 boost controller with the lightest spring possible.
Using on-board air, I can control drive pressure from next to nothing, to 100 psi. (Which is what the sensor is ranged to.)

Old picture...but this is where it is mounted.

 

[KCTurbos]

I run an AMS-1000 boost controller with the lightest spring possible.
Using on-board air, I can control drive pressure from next to nothing, to 100 psi. (Which is what the sensor is ranged to.)

This is what I am going to do... Except I was just going to keep a small co2 bottle to keep it pressurized

 

[Extended Power]

I have my gate vented to atmosphere, as I can get over 32psi out of the primary as it is with the old 285/100 injectors.

 

[Extended Power]

This is what I am going to do... Except I was just going to keep a small co2 bottle to keep it pressurized

The higher the setting, say 100psi...it's hard to keep the gate sealed as it's just an o-ring, and band clamps. (I use JGS wastegates.)

 

[KCTurbos]

Even if you reduce drive on only one bank the pressure equalizes in the turbo, it's actually really effective

I have heard that theory... But i am still not 100% convinced.

Charlie Keeter was running a single gate on his truck with an s475 and nitrous. He ended up blowing out a couple exhaust valves on ththe bank that was not gated. After gating both sides he had no more problems

 

[Dieselmore]

How is your controller and CO2 setup. Although I have heard of people doing this, I'm not sure how everything works lol? Sorry for the stupid questions

 

[Extended Power]

How is your controller and CO2 setup. Although I have heard of people doing this, I'm not sure how everything works lol? Sorry for the stupid questions

Is this towards me?

If it is:
I have the pressure sensor inline with my drive pressure filter, and gauge. (So it stays clean.)
I am using the sensor to measure drive pressure, not boost.
Anything over the set point, say 80psi, the controller maintains the set point, by opening/closing the gate through solenoids.
No spring pressure to screw around with...just set it up in-cab.
It also records drive pressure, and boost pressure, as I have two 0-100psi sensors hooked up to it.

It's seriously the easiest thing I have ever used to control anything.

 

[KCTurbos]

Is this towards me?

If it is:
I have the pressure sensor inline with my drive pressure filter, and gauge. (So it stays clean.)
I am using the sensor to measure drive pressure, not boost.
Anything over the set point, say 80psi, the controller maintains the set point, by opening/closing the gate through solenoids.
No spring pressure to screw around with...just set it up in-cab.
It also records drive pressure, and boost pressure, as I have two 0-100psi sensors hooked up to it.

It's seriously the easiest thing I have ever used to control anything.

Do you get any Wastegates flutter? I originally planned and using drive pressure to control the gate but a couple guys said the pulsing in the exhaust would cause the Wastegates to flutter

 

[Dieselmore]

Ok, so the system is based on ebp, not boost. So do they sell a co2 kit to go along with the boost controller system, or is this something you put together your self. It sounds like a really accurate way to keep drive pressure in check

 

[Six_Sloww]

I have heard that theory... But i am still not 100% convinced.

Charlie Keeter was running a single gate on his truck with an s475 and nitrous. He ended up blowing out a couple exhaust valves on ththe bank that was not gated. After gating both sides he had no more problems

That's missing a critical piece of information though.. Was the gate able to relieve enough drive pressure by itself or was he still seeing dangerous drive pressure numbers that twin gates solved?

If that single gate wasn't enough then it makes sense that drive pressure would skyrocket on the bank without a gate.

 

[Six_Sloww]

Why would you use drive pressure to control the gate instead of boost?

I don't really see the need for an ams 1000 for our applications, we don't really use any of the features that make then worth the price. You can even set the Hallman manual controllers up so you can adjust them in the cab.

Money no object, sure it would be "nice to have" I couldn't justify the price myself.. My gate setup is silly simple, yet effective enough to make over 1000hp with a 66/70 vgt turbo with two stages of nitrous.

 

[Six_Sloww]

Boost reference in the intercooler pipe goes to the boost controller, then into the boost reference on the top of the gate.

The same could be done with C02, but I wouldn't do it unless you couldn't keep the gate closed

 

[Dieselmore]

Six Sloww, so your fine tuning your setup based upon looking at looking at your ebp pressure with your nitrous kits on, and fine tuning it accordingly? So what spring do you run in your gate?

 

[Six_Sloww]

Six Sloww, so your fine tuning your setup based upon looking at looking at your ebp pressure with your nitrous kits on, and fine tuning it accordingly? So what spring do you run in your gate?

Exactly, you just want to keep it out of the "danger zone" once the kits are on. I didn't dial in the gate on my truck, but from what I understand you want the heaviest springs so the gate doesn't start to open up before you want it to.

The spring will be the ability to hold the gate closed even after drive pressure overcomes boost, with too light of a spring even at 1:1 or just slightly above it (like a non nitrous pass where you just want to drive the charger hard) the gate could start to get forced open.

CO2 is usually used in applications where you are using your boost controller as a traction control device and very specific boost levels are desired at specific times. It's very quick and accurate but overkill IMO for how we use these wastegates.

 

[Extended Power]

Why would you use drive pressure to control the gate instead of boost?.

Because I'm controlling the amount of drive pressure I have...not boost.

I use on board air because it's an endless, and constant supply...never have to worry about how much pressure is in the bottle, etc, etc.

I got tired of trying this spring, and that spring...

Now I just type in what I want to see, and it happens with a simple touch of a couple buttons.

 

[Six_Sloww]

Because I'm controlling the amount of drive pressure I have...not boost.



I use on board air because it's an endless, and constant supply...never have to worry about how much pressure is in the bottle, etc, etc.



I got tired of trying this spring, and that spring...



Now I just type in what I want to see, and it happens with a simple touch of a couple buttons.

Right, in your case you are using on board air and the nice controller with compounds which are tricker to dial in. If a setup like yours is in the budget it obviously offers the best tuneability, but for someone just trying to regulate drive pressure with a big single and nitrous there's easier ways that are still effective.