OSCS
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Give me a minute with egts
external waste gate tuning/hookup.
- Thread starter 4.0l sahara
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OSCS
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1600+
OSCS
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At 10psi she's at 970
Blowby
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How do you know that you have 30-35psi coming out of the regulator? Did you hook a gauge up to it? Just want to make sure the regulator is allowing pressure to pass through.
You can remove the regulator and have the boost line go straight to the top. This will take that variable out of the equation and it's easy to do as a test.
You can remove the regulator and have the boost line go straight to the top. This will take that variable out of the equation and it's easy to do as a test.
OSCS
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OSCS
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well the regulator is working properly. I have the boost line plumbed strait to the top of the gate and it still leaks at 35psi
Blowby
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So that is where the gate is opening.
Example:
xx Psi spring force + Actual psi on top when it opens = Drive pressure on your setup now.
A few things to check -
- Spring force is not 25psi - Apply regulated pressure to the port on the bottom of the WG. Determine the psi needed to lift the valve.
- Diaphragm has a leak - Apply regulated 30psi to the port on top of the gate to see if it holds pressure.
- Ring on the bottom of gate (where valve seals) is installed incorrectly. - Make sure it is not upside down.
- V-Band clamps are not sealing - Check that the clamps are aligned and check for any exhaust leak in this area.
- WG is faulty - Remove and install V-Band plates to block off opening.
- Turbo has high DP - Install more spring force (stacked springs-smaller diameter in the center).
If the WG is functioning properly then the gate will only open when there is more force pushing up than force pushing down. It's that simple. Keep at it!
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OSCS
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Thanks BB you stated that if the gate is working properly than it will only open when there is more force from below than top ie controlling drive pressure. So if my setup was working properly/ no leaks or anything. Than with a 25psi spring & 35 psi on top my DP would rediculously high right now.. I'm just not sure how my Dp is so much higher than other with this setup. I know junkie runs a 10lb spring and does fine.. I remember when I had my dpc 402 still in the truck and was doin some 60-100 mph passes and it never leaked back then and was much faster on the high end. After I have David tune my dpc 422 it started to give up high endAnd I started to notice the leak more. So I wonder if the Tunning played a big role as well.
Quick question i still have a boost fooler on the line just before the map sensor is this still needed?
Quick question i still have a boost fooler on the line just before the map sensor is this still needed?
C'roy78stroker
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Im learning this wastegating thing along with you OSCS, but for the life of me i cant see why a .91 housing would be needed on a 300 housing'd 66 mm when you have such large injectors. Is the tuning really mild? judging by your EGT's i wouldnt think so or am i missing something? because 1600* EGT's seem high for an empty truck with a "smallish" turbo if say stock or 160's were being used unless its being fueled well with that small of a housing. I understand the wastegate is used to try to combat that but something isnt adding up for me... kind of curious to see what comes of this.
OSCS
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250/100's and the tune is far from mild. David did the Tunning and is known for being liberal in the fuel department.
C'roy78stroker
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I guess i should have clearified myself more. I noticed the sticks you were running in your sig. I was just saying that your EGT temp wouldnt be near that high with stock or "stage 1" injectors, so the rest of the temp might be from the aggressiveness in the tuning of the 250/100's? because dumping the amount of fuel those large injectors are capable of into that small housing has to be causing a large amount of drive pressure and possibly part of your problem. I know this is why the wastegate was utilized in this setup but, was there a reason for going with the .91 housing over what a 1.0something housing and more tuning wouldnt be able to accomplish? I know most the time for spool up. Just curious if elevation, towing, etc had something to do with it. I apologize for any de-rail. Trying to get a good understanding of everything and wanting to learn. If the larger wastegates allow us to run this kind of combo then thats good info to know. Any insight/corrections please explain
Blowby
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Did you check the first four items above? I need this information or it's just not going to progress from this point we're at right now. Tuning can play a role but I need to know where the WG sit's right now.
Chvyrkr
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Good thread.
Mike, once y'all figure out OSCS's wastegate issues, I'm really interested to hear about how you're controlling your gates.
Especially what you've found in regards to different setting for different duties.
Mike, once y'all figure out OSCS's wastegate issues, I'm really interested to hear about how you're controlling your gates.
Especially what you've found in regards to different setting for different duties.
OSCS
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BB I can tell you that with the boost running to the top port it will
Hold 30 ps, At 35 it leaks. No matter if the regulator is wide open or shut fully it will not make more than 25lbs of boost while plumbed to the bottom port. All clamps are tightened appropriately an there are no leakes.. I have not disassembled the gate to make sure the ring was installed correctly as I would like to leave this as a last option. That gate is TIGHT against my firewall and I'm convienced I couldn't get it off with out removing the turbo.. Like I said last option.
Hold 30 ps, At 35 it leaks. No matter if the regulator is wide open or shut fully it will not make more than 25lbs of boost while plumbed to the bottom port. All clamps are tightened appropriately an there are no leakes.. I have not disassembled the gate to make sure the ring was installed correctly as I would like to leave this as a last option. That gate is TIGHT against my firewall and I'm convienced I couldn't get it off with out removing the turbo.. Like I said last option.
OSCS
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It's having your cake and eating it too, the 366 has excellent street manors and spools up super fast. You can dial these things in but it takes a fair bit of Tunning and a properly working Wastegate. Once everything is said and done it is VERY hard to beat the streetability of this combo.
V-Ref
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To support what was posted previously (which is some really good advice BTW)....I would accomplish the outlined steps so you can move forward. You really need to get access to some regulated shop air, apply pressure to the bottom port on the gate, and see what pressure it takes open it. If you don't have access to regulated shop air, you can take a air bottle, put 40-50 psi in it, apply that pressure to the bottom port of your gate, and note the pressure on the tank when you hear the gate close (provided you heard it open when you applied 40-50 psi to it)....repeat...verify.
How high did you pressure test your system?
If you pressurized it to 10-15 psi, and called it good....you might be making incorrect assumptions on other components of your system operating properly at higher pressures.
Did you include the compressor housing in part of your leak testing?
(i.e. Some folks will disconnect the compressor discharge hose/hot side tube and introduce pressure there during leak testing, leaving the turbo out of it) If not, then the compressor discharge port that I'm assuming feeds your regulator that supplies your WG with boost pressure could be full of leaks. So you'd have a boost leak, and a leak that would fail to apply the appropriate desired pressure to either the bottom/top of your gate.
This sounds like a 25-ish PSI spring pack in your WG.
Plug in the compressor discharge port (on your turbo compressor housing) that is now connected to your regulator, and run the WG with both the top/bottom ports vented to atmosphere...see what boost you make then.
One possible scenario is you've got a string of leaks (potentially between the turbo discharge port>regulator>WG), and haven't tested at high enough pressure to see it yet. Soapy water, or (if you feel brave and have a clean engine compartment) a smokey match can help you find the little ones.
It is a PITA, but once you get it up and running right, you shouldn't need to mess with it.
Leak test, leak test, leak test (include the turbo/regulator/wg tubing), use regulated shop air to find out what pressure it takes to open your spring pack, and then you can move forward.
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4.0l sahara
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Well on a different note I'm looking to ditch the regulator for a boost controller. I'm also thinking of running it on c02 but im not to sure how long a bottle would last me on the street. This is the boost controller.
http://www.ams1000.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=60
http://www.ams1000.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=51&Itemid=60
So with the wastegate fully open @ around 25 psi boost it still is able to flow enough drive pressure to bring it up to 45psi boost?
I understand how the drive/boost ratio can be effected by fueling but with that said if you are able to almost double your boost (25psi to 45psi) with a fully opened WG venting exhaust flow would that not point to a issue of too small of wg for that particular turbo and fueling strategy setup?
I guess it would be best to know what the drive pressures were as maybe for the top boost drive pressures stay inline as the max boost was 45 psi? Or maybe some tune tweaks if the fueling is heavier than needed? As I see it without a change in the fueling there would be no way for the wg to control boost below 45 psi if that was desired. Again without driver pressure numbers its a bit moot. If drive pressure was 45 then its good but if its 65 with boost @ 45 more gate I would think is needed. Just following a logical track here as I have far from a expert with this stuff.
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PowerstrokeJunkie
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Im telling you right now with your setup there is NO F'N WAY the wastegate 45mm can be hanging wide the F open and STILL make that kind of pressure. That is about the diameter of one up pipe, venting right to the atmosphere and it will kill your trucks power and make it fall flat on it's face. I dont think you have the hoses hooked up quite right and you just arent sure about what needs to happen. Do you have any leftover parts in the wastegate box that it came in? Was the clamp a bitch to get started when you were installing it on the mount, or did it kind of slide around on the two marmon-halves and you had to center it while tightening the clamp?
It seems like a lot as well when you consider how much boost is lost out of small cut and leaks we see posted all the time on here let alone a 45mm hole which works out to what 1.75-1.78" diameter I think. That is one big @ss hole LOL with about a 2 1/2" surface area worth of exhaust gas pouring out. Maybe the spring is actually stronger and its only just cracking open at 25 psi? I did not think it would have come with a 25 psi combo but its possible. They do make springs in all three diameters in 10lb loads IIRC. That could give you a total of 30 psi if you combined them all.
