Floating injector poppets?? High ICP

earlybroncoboy · Oct 2, 2020

I’ve been searching but can’t find a whole lot of info on it. Those who have floated injector poppets what are your symptoms and upon floating did icp then max out?

I’m trying to track down an issue seems if I keep icp around 3000 I’m fine anything more than that on a hotter tune my truck completely falls on its face somewhere around 3200 icp and when it happens icp spikes to 3800.

Truck ran great before with a set of 300/200 for a few weeks as a test. bumped up to 455/400s and it hasn’t been so happy.

I am by know means bashing any injector company or tuner, they have all been great with me and eager to help with my problem just want to make sure I’m headed in the right direction before I pull the sticks back out and send them in.

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JoeDiesle · Oct 2, 2020

HPOP not keeping up maybe?

earlybroncoboy · Oct 2, 2020

JoeDiesle said:
HPOP not keeping up maybe?

Pretty sure it’s keeping up, I’m running a Gen3 style hpop. I’m making plenty of icp. Possibly too much at times.

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superpsd · Oct 2, 2020

So digging up old threads. It was mentioned that going beyond 3200 ICP just beats up the injectors and poppet control issues start. Not sure what your tuner is calling for ICP but I doubt its all the way to the maximum of 3800. You may need to do some diagnosis with this as the ICP spike isssue you are seeing has been injectors and or IPR control issues etc. When I tune I just keep ICP under 3K myself. Might start with data logging and or talk to your tuner and find out how much ICP the hot tune is calling for.

earlybroncoboy · Oct 3, 2020

superpsd said:
So digging up old threads. It was mentioned that going beyond 3200 ICP just beats up the injectors and poppet control issues start. Not sure what your tuner is calling for ICP but I doubt its all the way to the maximum of 3800. You may need to do some diagnosis with this as the ICP spike isssue you are seeing has been injectors and or IPR control issues etc. When I tune I just keep ICP under 3K myself. Might start with data logging and or talk to your tuner and find out how much ICP the hot tune is calling for.

Yeah I agree I guess my thought are that my injectors are popping off at a lower icp than 3200. Currently max my tuners are calling for. From what little I was able to dig up some evidence suggested that once they started floating poppets icp would then max out around 3800. I would like some more evidence that suggests that. However I’m pursuing getting my tuner to lower my icp to 3000 to see if my issues go away.

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superpsd · Oct 4, 2020

Would probably cure the problem. Are the injectors remanufactured? Most remans depending on who built them are usually the same old shim job. A bran new injector oil side should be able to withstand more ICP than a worn one.

earlybroncoboy · Oct 4, 2020

superpsd said:
Would probably cure the problem. Are the injectors remanufactured? Most remans depending on who built them are usually the same old shim job. A bran new injector oil side should be able to withstand more ICP than a worn one.

They are fresh unlimited injectors but yes technically are remans. I suppose I’ve never had a “new” injector in a 7.3. I have tried various companies on remans though never had an issue up until this point. Again not bashing unlimited they already offered me to send them back and flow them again.

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Magnum PD · Oct 4, 2020

What is the duty cycle doing?

earlybroncoboy · Oct 5, 2020

Magnum PD said:
What is the duty cycle doing?

38 to 40% when it’s at 3800icp

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earlybroncoboy · Oct 9, 2020

Update,

Tuner lowered icp in a few different tunes 2800 3000 and 3200. Issues still exist. I’m not sure where to go at this point. Truck starts to pull hard but anything over 3/4 throttle has a terrible miss and seems to not fuel at all. I see no change in pulse width when this happens. Truck just falls on it face with an audible misfire.

May start a new thread if needed

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Hotrodtractor · Oct 9, 2020

What is the PW doing when this happens? What RPM?

earlybroncoboy · Oct 12, 2020

Hotrodtractor said:
What is the PW doing when this happens? What RPM?

Does not seem to be rpm dependent injector pulse width is somewhere around 3.5 . I have dataloged what I can but nothing seems to correlate with the missing/cutting out. One thing I do see strange is the coolant temp but most people say you can’t read it from the computer.

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lincolnlocker · Oct 13, 2020

Is it not bleeding off fast enough? Is it dual ipr?

live life full throttle

earlybroncoboy · Oct 13, 2020

lincolnlocker said:
Is it not bleeding off fast enough? Is it dual ipr?

live life full throttle

Single IPR. I was able to get icp in check with a few tune changes. However I still have a miss/chug at wot at about 3k rpm. Feels like the truck cuts all power.

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lincolnlocker · Oct 13, 2020

earlybroncoboy said:
Single IPR. I was able to get icp in check with a few tune changes. However I still have a miss/chug at wot at about 3k rpm. Feels like the truck cuts all power.

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Does it start smoking like crazy when that happens?

live life full throttle

earlybroncoboy · Oct 13, 2020

lincolnlocker said:
Does it start smoking like crazy when that happens?

live life full throttle

Actually completely stops smoking

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lincolnlocker · Oct 13, 2020

earlybroncoboy said:
Actually completely stops smoking

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I thought they required dual ipr's when running big oil to bleed access icp.

Just continue with HRT. He will know wtf is going on. That dude has probably forgotten more than i ever learned. Lol

live life full throttle

Magnum PD · Oct 13, 2020

If his duty cycle was down low At higher rpms that would be the problem but don’t see it here.

earlybroncoboy · Oct 13, 2020

earlybroncoboy said:
Does not seem to be rpm dependent injector pulse width is somewhere around 3.5 . I have dataloged what I can but nothing seems to correlate with the missing/cutting out. One thing I do see strange is the coolant temp but most people say you can’t read it from the computer.

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I tried an older tune file tonight only called for 2.6 pw problem was still there but didn’t happen until after 3000 rpm or so. Truck pulled a lot higher into the rpms than with other tuning. Icp 3200 max 32% duty cycle.

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Big Bore · Nov 4, 2020

I noticed you're running a 400% nozzle, and you said you pulled the PW back to 2.6. I haven't done the math in awhile and would need to find some tables but with those nozzles you shouldn't need a lot of PW to empty a 350cc injector, and when you have too much PW I think you start seeing those ICP issues you describe. I'm sure you know this, but at higher rpm you only have so much time to empty the injector. Too much pulse width has always caused problems, and was the impetus for the development of those huge nozzles, allowing for emptying the injector in less time, and, being able to refine the timing of the injection. I would dial it back to 2ms and see what happens. I wish I could remember what the max ms available at X rpm, but thats where you start. IOW figure out what rpm is your target, calculate what your window is, any PW beyond that is literally useless and is flushing a toilet with an empty tank. And of course holding the PW longer than it takes to empty the injector is also useless, which I think is whats happening here. Used to be some good threads on this on the other site. Basically, too much PW holds the injector open too long and doesnt allow it to fill for the next injection event. which would explain why you don't have any smoke.