Hard starting (kinda)

[seabee15]

So I'm having small issue starting my 2001 7.3 mostly stock truck in the morning. All it has 4" exhaust- hydra - riff rad hpx and the Napa filter.

It doesn't matter what the temp is outside, 80*F to 30*F this truck has a bit of an issue starting. Last March I changed the glow plugs ( motorcraft ) and both under valve cover wiring harnesses.

Last month I got two brand new everstart maxx 850cca batteries.

Last week I changed out the relay to the western snow plow relay.

Still having a issue starting!

In the morning I will cycle the key to the wait to start- even let it go until the primer pump shuts off, make sure no accessories/head lights / hvac is on and then I turn the key. It turns over about 6-7 times and at about the 8-10 time it sounds as if the truck is going to die.

Sooooo I cycle the key again, wait till the pump of off and everything is off- it turns over within 2-3 times. But then I get a 3-4 of the romps and of course just a tiny bit of smoke.

Is it fuel? Not enough pressure ? Could it be the starter? Bad glow plugs ?

Open to ideas .

Thanks in advance



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[Magnum PD]

Check fuel pressure I would say

 

[TjMiller]

Did you check the draw down on the batteries during cranking and all the connections? Starter? Also I would pull the belt and check that all the pulleys move as they should.

 

[mandkole]

Sounds similar to mine when the temp gets below 50F. A combination of the starter tiring/drawing batteries, chunky injectors on cold oil and cold motor. I don't drive mine much so Ive been lazy to change the starter and deal with all the connections. I usually let the GPs heat through their whole cycle until they shut off and go for it.

 

[Justin@DP-Tuner]

How many miles on the injectors?

Does it turn over strong? Or is it having a hard time turning over, such as when you have a bad battery?

 

[seabee15]

Check fuel pressure I would say

How would I check the fuel pressure?


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[seabee15]

Did you check the draw down on the batteries during cranking and all the connections? Starter? Also I would pull the belt and check that all the pulleys move as they should.

I'll check the batteries and pulleys tomorrow , thank you !


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[seabee15]

How many miles on the injectors?

Does it turn over strong? Or is it having a hard time turning over, such as when you have a bad battery?

150k on the injectors- it's hard turning over the first cycle, turns over very strong the second cycle.


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[Justin@DP-Tuner]

150k on the injectors- it's hard turning over the first cycle, turns over very strong the second cycle.


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This kind of indicates it would be a voltage/starter issue of some sort. Hook up a volt meter and see what you are getting while cranking.

 

[seabee15]

This morning it was 36*F. I cycled the keys twice (until I heard the priming pump stop)with out starting- it cranked until it sounded like it was going to die - cycled it a third time- started up quickly.

A new discovery- I scanned the truck yesterday afternoon and the P1670 "EF signal not detected" code came up.

I cleared the code and drove the truck no problem. Scanned it again- no codes found.

This morning - I performed the above starting sequence- scanned the truck as I was driving, P1670 came up again. Cleared it while driving- scanned it 20 miles later - no code.

Mind you, I'm using my superchips programmer to run the diagnostics- I don't have the money for a AE and I just bought a ELM 327 that will be here in a week or so.




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[seabee15]

This kind of indicates it would be a voltage/starter issue of some sort. Hook up a volt meter and see what you are getting while cranking.

Would this be as simple as putting a voltmeter across one of the batteries and seeing the voltage drop during starting ?


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[Justin@DP-Tuner]

This morning it was 36*F. I cycled the keys twice (until I heard the priming pump stop)with out starting- it cranked until it sounded like it was going to die - cycled it a third time- started up quickly.

A new discovery- I scanned the truck yesterday afternoon and the P1670 "EF signal not detected" code came up.

I cleared the code and drove the truck no problem. Scanned it again- no codes found.

This morning - I performed the above starting sequence- scanned the truck as I was driving, P1670 came up again. Cleared it while driving- scanned it 20 miles later - no code.

Mind you, I'm using my superchips programmer to run the diagnostics- I don't have the money for a AE and I just bought a ELM 327 that will be here in a week or so.




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This could be an IDM issue. However, when that is the case it will normally throw a P1298 code as well. The P1670 code means a communication issue has occurred between the PCM and IDM. I guess if your voltage is dropping low enough, this could be related.

Would this be as simple as putting a voltmeter across one of the batteries and seeing the voltage drop during starting ?


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Yes, you could do that. But what a lot of guys do is go pick up one of those cheap cigarette lighter voltmeter's that auto parts stores normally carry. Much easier than trying to run a multi-meter when cranking.

 

[dsberman94]

Check and clean your battery terminals

 

[seabee15]

I received my OBDII wifi adapter and downloaded FORscan.

What parameters (PIDs) should I look at while cranking?

Also I received my 12v voltage meter and temp gauge.
This is what I found : 70*F outside
Key out engine off : 12.3V
Key on engine off (wait to start): 11.3v
Cranking: 10.4v
Engine started: 12.3v
Engine idle ( after 45second): 14.4v


What do you think?




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[Whytry]

Voltages look good, go and make sure all of the connection on battery's and starter are tight. Could this be a cam sensor issue ?

 

[seabee15]

Voltages look good, go and make sure all of the connection on battery's and starter are tight. Could this be a cam sensor issue ?

I was thinking that but after searching about cps issues, a lot of them said the truck would run like crap or shut off randomly or not start at all. But I may be wrong. And if I'm not mistaken- the best cps is the one from international correct?

I'm going to further inspect the connections, I'm also thinking it could be a hpop issue ....


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[bcvickers]

Check all of your grounds. One of my cab to chassis grounds rotted right off, the one under the passenger side on an '02 crew cab. That caused all sorts of strange issues/codes and miscommunication. I also changed my starter after 167k, I believe it was the second one. The old one was physically loose when I went to pull it. I'm sure that lead to it's demise but it's something easy to check.