Help mis at idle and shakes in od

fst86410 · Feb 7, 2014

My first post, I thought I would see if maybe you guys have run into this before. So the last winter storm came through and i got stuck In my driveway. My truck sits in a 55 degree garage and when I pulled it out to go to work it was running fine. Few minutes later I'm stuck so I get on it a little to get out. After i got out and going down the road i noticed It was down on power and when it goes into overdrive it starts shaking the whole truck. So I get out thinking there was snow packed In the wheels but see that it is leaking oil bad at the back of the engine. So I drive home and park it. Found that the turbo pedestal was the cause for the leak. I repaired this and put on bellowed up pipe because i sea they were leaking too. Put it back together and there are no more oil leaks but it is still missing out rough idle and shakes when in overdrive. I've done the buzz test all sound the same and all buzz. I've unplugged the ICP and no change in the idle and no oil in the plug. Pressure at idle is 630 to 750 with 13 to 16 duty cycle. I did a cylinder contribution test and it comes up as #7 imbalance. It also had a bad EBP sensor. I've replace it and cleaner the tube.

Truck details: 00 f350 with 90k miles, swamps hybrid 315's, 38r turbo, bellowed up pipes, deleted ebp, 5 inch exhaust, regulated return, chip isfrom swamps with.ts programming, rebuilt trans with sun coast tripple disk converter probably more that I'm forgetting as I did most of these mods 10 years ago. Sorry this was so long.

V-Ref · Feb 7, 2014

That's a lot of ICP variation at idle. Do you have another IPR you could swap in? How healthy is your HPOP? Do you have access to Auto Enginuity?

Let see...if it was my truck...with your mods...I'd try:

1. Replace IPR
2. Look at % change of RPM per cylinder in Auto Enginuity....that might point you to..
3. Replacing the CPS...OR
4. A specific cylinder that has an issue (injector, oring, etc)
5. If you have access to a burner/chip, call swamps, and see if he's got updated tuning, and see if that makes the shake worse/better, that might help Swamps help you diagnose.

golfer · Feb 7, 2014

fst86410 said:
My first post, I thought I would see if maybe you guys have run into this before. So the last winter storm came through and i got stuck In my driveway. My truck sits in a 55 degree garage and when I pulled it out to go to work it was running fine. Few minutes later I'm stuck so I get on it a little to get out. After i got out and going down the road i noticed It was down on power and when it goes into overdrive it starts shaking the whole truck. So I get out thinking there was snow packed In the wheels but see that it is leaking oil bad at the back of the engine. So I drive home and park it. Found that the turbo pedestal was the cause for the leak. I repaired this and put on bellowed up pipe because i sea they were leaking too. Put it back together and there are no more oil leaks but it is still missing out rough idle and shakes when in overdrive. I've done the buzz test all sound the same and all buzz. I've unplugged the ICP and no change in the idle and no oil in the plug. Pressure at idle is 630 to 750 with 13 to 16 duty cycle. I did a cylinder contribution test and it comes up as #7 imbalance. It also had a bad EBP sensor. I've replace it and cleaner the tube.

Truck details: 00 f350 with 90k miles, swamps hybrid 315's, 38r turbo, bellowed up pipes, deleted ebp, 5 inch exhaust, regulated return, chip isfrom swamps with.ts programming, rebuilt trans with sun coast tripple disk converter probably more that I'm forgetting as I did most of these mods 10 years ago. Sorry this was so long.

Any (constant) CEL/SES lights illuminated?

I'd check fuel pressure/fuel quality if you don't have a constant SES/CEL on...

if fuel pressure checks out, before pulling the/a injector...check pushrods/rocker arms, and maybe compression if you have any symptoms that are consistent with lack of compression.

if you want to shoot the inj(s) down, please include this form:

http://swampsdiesel.com/files/RMA.pdf

fst86410 · Feb 7, 2014

No SEE/CEL's
I've checked the fuel, looks good in the bowl. Psi is at 70. I don't know what it does going down the road though.
I've spun the pushrods while they were in the engine and didn't see any that were bent that way. Should I take them out and check them?
Do you think the injector would just go bad like that? They only have about 40k miles on them?
I appriciate the comments. I'll look at these things tonight after work.
I've thought about the IPR but I don't have one. I've seen where you can clean them?
I have access to au tool. I'll look at the duty cycle again to verify.

golfer · Feb 7, 2014

IPR can't cause a misfire.

Check the fuel lines from the bowl to the head(s)..the fitting(s) have a screen in them, and can restrict flow/pressure to the head(s).

also run a buzz test...if they all buzz (and sound the same), that rules out IDM/wiring/electrical...so I'd focus on fuel to the head(s). A hard misfire out of the blue is generally (if not electrical) an issue on the fuel side of the injector (scored plunger and barrel)

fst86410 · Feb 7, 2014

So after I check the fuel lines, if they are clean and nothing in them and it might be an injector. I can check this by unplugging one injector at a time when it is running and this will tell me which one correct? One more thing If this happened to one should they all be pulled? Ive been wanting to send them back for a while to change the nozzles. Thanks again for the help

golfer · Feb 7, 2014

fst86410 said:
So after I check the fuel lines, if they are clean and nothing in them and it might be an injector. I can check this by unplugging one injector at a time when it is running and this will tell me which one correct? One more thing If this happened to one should they all be pulled? Ive been wanting to send them back for a while to change the nozzles. Thanks again for the help

Jeremy (got your email, thanks)

check not just the lines, but the fitting(s) that actually thread into the head(s)...they have the screens in them..check for blockage, particularly if this truck has had any history of tank/fuel issues.

Since you purchased those in 2003 (I looked it up, set number 26 LOL)..we've made some pretty major changes in design/machining procedures...as well as have more nozzle options (and much...much better tuning).

the same basic injector you have..is now capable of 760hp (crank, @ 650rwhp)...and can be detuned to have zerrrooo smoke in the lower/daily chip settings. We were probably lucky to make 500hp back then with the tuning we were using..and very few had any means to 'tune' big nozzles down for street use.

fst86410 · Feb 7, 2014

Thanks Dave, I want to figure out for sure why my truck is running the way it is before I yank all the injectors out and send them back. This is something I am going to do though. Should I sent my chip back with them? Can you either pm or email me a quote to rework my injectors and explain what will be done? Thanks again for the help.

fst86410 · Feb 8, 2014

Alright, didn't really think about it when you told me to check the fittings but I have a regulated return system on the truck so those fittings aren't there anymore. Also there has never been an issue with the tank. Should i take the rocker and push rods off and check them?

lincolnlocker · Feb 8, 2014

fst86410 said:
My first post, I thought I would see if maybe you guys have run into this before. So the last winter storm came through and i got stuck In my driveway. My truck sits in a 55 degree garage and when I pulled it out to go to work it was running fine. Few minutes later I'm stuck so I get on it a little to get out. After i got out and going down the road i noticed It was down on power and when it goes into overdrive it starts shaking the whole truck. So I get out thinking there was snow packed In the wheels but see that it is leaking oil bad at the back of the engine. So I drive home and park it. Found that the turbo pedestal was the cause for the leak. I repaired this and put on bellowed up pipe because i sea they were leaking too. Put it back together and there are no more oil leaks but it is still missing out rough idle and shakes when in overdrive. I've done the buzz test all sound the same and all buzz. I've unplugged the ICP and no change in the idle and no oil in the plug. Pressure at idle is 630 to 750 with 13 to 16 duty cycle. I did a cylinder contribution test and it comes up as #7 imbalance. It also had a bad EBP sensor. I've replace it and cleaner the tube.

Truck details: 00 f350 with 90k miles, swamps hybrid 315's, 38r turbo, bellowed up pipes, deleted ebp, 5 inch exhaust, regulated return, chip isfrom swamps with.ts programming, rebuilt trans with sun coast tripple disk converter probably more that I'm forgetting as I did most of these mods 10 years ago. Sorry this was so long.

I see it says that you unplugged the icp sensor and there was no change in idle and the idle icp is high unless the tunes call for idle icp to be that high... when you unplug the icp sensor and there is zero change in idle, it means it is usually in default and the sensor is bad. If you unplug the icp sensor and idle changes, that means its still working cuz it forces it into the default perameters.

live life full throttle

lincolnlocker · Feb 8, 2014

By the way, welcome to PSA!

live life full throttle

Rideracelivemx7 · Feb 8, 2014

I'd check the valve cover harness, sounds like an injector is dead prnisnt getting power.

TyCorr · Feb 8, 2014

That's what I was thinking^

My truck was lopey and running like chit with a 3500 mile old ipr in it. Kept ignoring it because it CANT be a new part, right? Well after screwing around I changed the ipr and the truck fired up.and idled great again.

Just saying.

fst86410 · Feb 8, 2014

Thanks for the input guys. I did a buzz test and all injectors buzz and sound pretty much the same so wouldn't that tell you that the wiring to the IDM and injectors are good?

V-Ref · Feb 9, 2014

fst86410 said:
....wiring to the IDM and injectors are good?

Wiring to the IDM and electronic solenoid portion of the injector....but there could still be an inj/idm issue that isn't seen during a buzz test.

Do you have a video you can post that captures the miss your observing? If possible capture ICP, PW, and IPR Duty Cycle while it's doing it.

Your first post talks about ICP...was it jumping a 100 psi while idling...or are those just the ranges as the EOT warmed up? How much does ICP fluctuate during idle?

mandkole · Feb 9, 2014

I doubt its an injector issue.. unless 4-6 of them crapped at the same time

I've seen a sticking IPR cause all kinds of issues with idle and running, plus wiring issues in the IPR power/signal supply can do the same thing. For grins, swap the IPR... cold warm up will show duty cycle higher to support the cold oil, then it reduces at idle as the oil warms. ICP will have small pulses (on a scan gauge) but DC should not jump around.

Going back to the events leading up to the issue, is there something going on with the tranny perhaps--nothing broken between the converter and flex plate?