littleredstroker
New member
My uppies are leaking baddddd and it was an enertia dyno... Not sure if those will make a difference
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Heui injectors
- Thread starter littleredstroker
- Start date
powerSmokin
New member
That could do it.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Sub'd for the info..
Dieselboy.
New member
Dont take dyno numbers to heart. Its ment for tuning purposes. I would also bet beans has some pulled back to keep the rods in the motor.
Jason, Dave or Jim. comparing 2 sets of injectors, both have fast mods. 250/200 vs a 400/200. Are you gonna actually get "more" fuel from the 400cc injector. From my understanding its more of a cushion to help refill faster to insure maximum cc's. Afterall the nozzle is the restriction right ?
And at what point does having the injector open for too long take into affect ? 3 MS ? 4MS ? (200% nozzle)
Jason, Dave or Jim. comparing 2 sets of injectors, both have fast mods. 250/200 vs a 400/200. Are you gonna actually get "more" fuel from the 400cc injector. From my understanding its more of a cushion to help refill faster to insure maximum cc's. Afterall the nozzle is the restriction right ?
And at what point does having the injector open for too long take into affect ? 3 MS ? 4MS ? (200% nozzle)
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
the 400 will flow more.... My 300/200 empty in about 3ms..
So with fast mods the 400 would empty more then 300cc in less then 3ms..
From what I have heard anything over 3ms with big nozzles and hybrids is a waste and just makes more smoke and can loose you power!!
I done know I would say 2.5 to 3.0 ms is the cut off point.. But could be all wet there!!
So with fast mods the 400 would empty more then 300cc in less then 3ms..
From what I have heard anything over 3ms with big nozzles and hybrids is a waste and just makes more smoke and can loose you power!!
I done know I would say 2.5 to 3.0 ms is the cut off point.. But could be all wet there!!
Tim @ P.I.S.
Member
A 200% nozzle can only flow "x" amount of fuel. Doesn't matter if it has a fuel capacity of 200cc or 400cc. If it flows 200cc in 2 ms, both will flow 200cc in 2ms. It will only flow more with a longer pulse width.
Dieselboy.
New member
Exactly my thoughts Tim. Cowboy I'm sorry but I doubt I could empty 400ccs with a 200% nozzle. I'd have to ask Nate for the flow sheet
What rpms do nozzles allow you to fuel too ? 100% vs 200% vs 400%. Is that determined on the flow bench ?
What rpms do nozzles allow you to fuel too ? 100% vs 200% vs 400%. Is that determined on the flow bench ?
Tim @ P.I.S.
Member
it will depend on the fuel capacity. Say a 300/200 will not carry as high in the rpm band as say a 300/400. I am having very good results with the 400 nozzles now.
littleredstroker
New member
So bigger nozzles ore more for higher rpm I'm getting? How high are guys spinning these ?
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
From the tests I have seen (data from flow benches) with High seed mods you can and will flow more fuel in the same time... as a Injector without High speed mods....
Now take a 250/200 and 400/200 Both made by the same company and BOTH have the high speed mods... Lets say we test then @ only 2.5ms of PW Again the 400cc injector will move more fuel.. Noe test them @ 3ms of PW The 400cc will move a LOT more fuel the the 250cc injector.. Even though they both have 200% nozzles... The reason is the 250cc injector will be empty (if it has high flow mods) a little before 2.5ms of PW BUT the 400cc injector will not be empty so it will keep pushing out more fuel.. The same goes for 3ms of PW.. SO yes you can get more fuel out of a 400c Injector in a good time frame then you can a 250cc injector...
BUT like you said.. @ 2ms of PW they will flow the same fuel... so If you are going to run over a certian amount of PW like say 2.3ms of PW you would see no benift of the 400ccc injector Other then a cusion.. Now go above 2.3ms of PW the 400cc will keep on shining...
I doubt you could empty a 400/200 Injector with high flow mods fast.. It would take over 3.5ms of PW maybe closer to 4ms BUT i do not think it is that high,,
A 200% nozzle will empty 400cc of fuel.. It just will take time and make you loose power and be WAY more smoky!!!
Hotrodtractor
Moderator
NO. If two injectors are identical in every fashion with the only exception being the capacity - they will have the same flow rate for any given set of conditions.
Hotrodtractor
Moderator
I need to add one additional caveat - you will get more flow if your test procedures are not allowing sufficient time to refill the injector - you will never reach those conditions in an engine with a 200% tip.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Can you explain a little better please...
So you are saying a 250cc injector can flow the same as my 300cc injector @ 3ms of PW??? 3ms emptys the 300/200 injectors I have.. How can the 250/200 compare to that?? when it only can flow 250cc MAX??
I would like to know you reason behind this... I have always been told differant by Some of the Injector builders..
Dieselboy.
New member
The nozzle is the restriction. Like Tim said, you can only push so much throught it. Regardless of capacity and fuel mods.
I see what your saying, but like Jason said. In the test your only using one injector. In the motor it has 7 more before it has to be fully refilled for the next shot.
I bumped my capacity up for the "cushion" as well as if the time comes to upgrade I'm just a nozzle swap away.
When does one know he's reached his rpm limits ? My drag tune rpm for each shift is 3400 rpm. 3-4 shift is almost 3500. I've wondered if I could pull more rpm but am I gaining anything ?
I see what your saying, but like Jason said. In the test your only using one injector. In the motor it has 7 more before it has to be fully refilled for the next shot.
I bumped my capacity up for the "cushion" as well as if the time comes to upgrade I'm just a nozzle swap away.
When does one know he's reached his rpm limits ? My drag tune rpm for each shift is 3400 rpm. 3-4 shift is almost 3500. I've wondered if I could pull more rpm but am I gaining anything ?
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
you now have 400/200 With no high speed mods right???
So If you switched back to 250/200 with no high speed mods, With no tunning changes you would still make the same power and go the same speed in a 1/4 mile??? O and both sets made by the same company...
Its a proven fact 250/200 will not make as much power as a 300/200 With both sets being the same aother then flowing differant amounts of fuel..
i guess this is why I do not get the reasoning behinh niether will out do the other... even though one can flow more fuel in a good time frame..
I guess that is why i dont get it...
Hotrodtractor
Moderator
See below. That IS actual flow data from an injector - it has a tip size and modifications and injection ratios that are fixed - the only two things that effect how much fuel comes out of that injector is the pulse width (the commanded "on" time) and the injection control pressure. I can increase the volume of this injector and you won't get any more fuel to come out. I could decrease the volume of this injector and won't get any less fuel out UNLESS I have exceeded the capacity of the injector - in which case there just is no more fuel to be had.
OK let start with your base question.... you get confused when people talk about pulse width "and everything else" ..... lets take a look at this injector flow chart - I chose this one cause it has lots of colors.
Notice that the axis along the right lower edge of the graph is ICP - this is the pressure of oil in the high pressure oil rails in the heads.
The bottom/front edge is the pulsewidth in milliseconds. This is the amount of "on" time that an injector sees - its the signal that Dave posted a link to.
The vertical axis is the volume of fuel per a 1000 shot test (industry standard). This is measured in CCs
So - on this injector if I was running say 2.5ms of PW at 2500psi of ICP that puts me at about 310cc or so - its at the bottom of the "orange" area.
Hotrodtractor
Moderator
Proven fact under what test conditions? Was the tuning such that it was maxing out the 250cc in the smaller injector?
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
LOL You know Jason we are just going in BIG circles here.. Both saying the same thing but getting no were!!!
I agree with what you said above.. They will flow the same intill the smaller injector can not flow any more CC THEN then the bigger injector will flow more!!
The only way you would see a benifit with 400/200 over the 250/200 is IF you called for a PW that was higher then what it took the 250cc to empty....
I stated that a couple of post back... here it is... Below....
just seing differant track time and dyno times.... From the same poeple just with differant injectors.. and tunning to work with the injectors... Most started out with 250/200 then jumped to 300/200 or bigger with the same nozzle and made more power and were faster on the 1/4 mile strip....
I think we might be on the same boat.. just at differant ends of it.. LOL If that make sense!!
Dieselboy.
New member
Mine have fuel side mods 
. My 250/200s did not. I can tell the difference in fueling lol.
Your basically saying the bigger injector can put more fuel in because it has more capacity so it insures a full shot every time. That being said at 2ms with fuel side mods your only injecting 200ish ccs with a 200% nozzle iirc.
At 4ms I don't think your gaining much anyhow so no point in dumping all that fuel in.
. My 250/200s did not. I can tell the difference in fueling lol. Your basically saying the bigger injector can put more fuel in because it has more capacity so it insures a full shot every time. That being said at 2ms with fuel side mods your only injecting 200ish ccs with a 200% nozzle iirc.
At 4ms I don't think your gaining much anyhow so no point in dumping all that fuel in.
