HID Interference Concerns.

superduty4x4

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I have a Dp-Tuner with no issues. I've had several different chips, tuners, flux capacitors, and yankee doodlers with no issues while running HID's....

Im gonna go out on a limb here and say that this is more aimed at a witch hunt than it is anything productive. This is the same thing repeated *yearly* by the same group of people who always have some ax to grind with Jody. I don't get it. If you think RF shielding needs to be addressed, theeeeeeeen come up with your solution and market it. If you can only offer loose lips.... well then, maybe considering a change of course will be your best bet :)
A most excellent post sir!
 

Strictly Diesel

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I had a discussion with a supplier of mine this morning. He's an electronics designer and the builder of the OBS Fuel Pump Controller that we will be releasing with our complete OBS fuel system kit. He's done a bunch of work with HIDs in the motorcycle environment and is well versed in their shortcomings.

First off, he basically bet me money that if we were using Bosch OE level ballasts in these trucks, none of these issues would exist. Even though the aftermarket ballasts are in metal cases, he said that the EMI and RFI from the HID ballast (particularly during startup) is pretty extreme. It's his contention that none of the aftermarket ballasts have anywhere near the level of EMI/RFI protection that the OE Bosch pieces do, which he feels is the ultimate source of our woes.

Next, he said that EMI and RFI degrade very quickly over distance. He feels that even a terribly insulated ballast would only be able to affect surrounding devices that are within "inches" of the ballast case. When I mentioned that the PCM and Chip being discussed here are generally in the neighborhood of 4' away from the ballasts (assuming most are installing them near the drivers headlight), he was very skeptical that the problem was actually EMI/RFI (at least "through the air").

I then asked if it was possible for the ballasts to put enough "noise" on the wiring to affect electronics that may be connected through a nearby junction point. He indicated that the ballasts "should" have protection to prevent this (but again referenced the quality of a Bosch OE unit vs "cheap" aftermarket units) and also indicated that the factory electronics in the vehicle should have power input side filtering due to the "nasty" nature of the car electrical system. Whether the filtering in the stock Ford electronics is enough is unknown without actual testing. When I mentioned the situation with my 6.0L truck, and the fact that it cleared up when all of the wiring was moved to the battery on the opposite side of the vehicle, he seemed to think that reinforced the theory that the "noise" that is causing the problems is actually on the wiring and not "over the air".

I asked about possible other solutions and had to dismiss his first response of "install Bosch ballasts" (I think he's got a problem with aftermarket HID ballasts...but I'm just guessing). I asked if something like additional grounds on the ballast case would make a difference, he said "not likely". I then asked about using a ferrite bead on the power wires for the ballasts and he thought that might be worth trying. He said that if you only have one, and it's big enough (he recommended the ones that are 1" or longer), to run both the power and ground wires through it, or to "double wrap" the power wire through it. This is just a guess...but he felt it was worth a try.

I don't currently have a truck available that is having a problem. If someone with a problem truck with HIDs is reading and willing, let's try some things and see if we can come up with a good solution.
 

ToMang07

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I wonder if grounding the ballasts out on the frame/body v.s. the negative on the batter would effect anything?
 

Tom S

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I had a discussion with a supplier of mine this morning. He's an electronics designer and the builder of the OBS Fuel Pump Controller that we will be releasing with our complete OBS fuel system kit. He's done a bunch of work with HIDs in the motorcycle environment and is well versed in their shortcomings.

First off, he basically bet me money that if we were using Bosch OE level ballasts in these trucks, none of these issues would exist. Even though the aftermarket ballasts are in metal cases, he said that the EMI and RFI from the HID ballast (particularly during startup) is pretty extreme. It's his contention that none of the aftermarket ballasts have anywhere near the level of EMI/RFI protection that the OE Bosch pieces do, which he feels is the ultimate source of our woes.

Next, he said that EMI and RFI degrade very quickly over distance. He feels that even a terribly insulated ballast would only be able to affect surrounding devices that are within "inches" of the ballast case. When I mentioned that the PCM and Chip being discussed here are generally in the neighborhood of 4' away from the ballasts (assuming most are installing them near the drivers headlight), he was very skeptical that the problem was actually EMI/RFI (at least "through the air").

I then asked if it was possible for the ballasts to put enough "noise" on the wiring to affect electronics that may be connected through a nearby junction point. He indicated that the ballasts "should" have protection to prevent this (but again referenced the quality of a Bosch OE unit vs "cheap" aftermarket units) and also indicated that the factory electronics in the vehicle should have power input side filtering due to the "nasty" nature of the car electrical system. Whether the filtering in the stock Ford electronics is enough is unknown without actual testing. When I mentioned the situation with my 6.0L truck, and the fact that it cleared up when all of the wiring was moved to the battery on the opposite side of the vehicle, he seemed to think that reinforced the theory that the "noise" that is causing the problems is actually on the wiring and not "over the air".

I asked about possible other solutions and had to dismiss his first response of "install Bosch ballasts" (I think he's got a problem with aftermarket HID ballasts...but I'm just guessing). I asked if something like additional grounds on the ballast case would make a difference, he said "not likely". I then asked about using a ferrite bead on the power wires for the ballasts and he thought that might be worth trying. He said that if you only have one, and it's big enough (he recommended the ones that are 1" or longer), to run both the power and ground wires through it, or to "double wrap" the power wire through it. This is just a guess...but he felt it was worth a try.

I don't currently have a truck available that is having a problem. If someone with a problem truck with HIDs is reading and willing, let's try some things and see if we can come up with a good solution.

Very intesting post. Maybe if we could learn some more about filtering to isolate the HID units from the truck better in a easy way a fix could be at hand.

On a side note I would love to hear about this OBS fuel pump control perhaps in a separate thread. I might be interested in something like that.

Tom
 

2000wa250

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FWIW, I have retro HID's and have had DDM HID's and have a buddy with DDM HID's, we both have or had DP chips on the trucks at the same time as the HID's and neither of us have had issues with the truck not starting or shutting down. Neither one of us grounded the HID's to the batteries and we both used grounds to the body or frame.
 

Chvyrkr

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Couple things to ponder...
Do the people with HID issues also have issues picking up radio stations?
Another thing that someone mentioned years ago, could a high powered CB booster kill a truck running a sensitive tuner?

I had a DP F5 from 05 - 08 and when I bought it had a Flat cable and I keep having stall issues when I would key my mic on my CB Radio... In late 05 or 06 they then sent me a round shielded cable. After the install of that I never had another stall issue but my radio wouldn't work worth a crap.

I now use the same radio and CB with a TS style chip and have never had any issue in the last 4 years.

Never have had HID's but I think its a radio frequency thing causing the issue.

I had DP 09ish... And I've had a palomar 600 kicker since 03-04, my superchip days lol.

I had no issues with the CB kicking off the DP, even with the kicker on high.

All the power for the kicker goes through the passenger floor, as does the power for the stereo amp.

The stereo and CB/kicker wiring was all top of the line stuff at the time of install, and I cannot run the kicker and stereo amp at the same time. I'll hear myself talking through the subs, and it's a nasty sound lol. I either have to kill the stereo all together, or run the CB naked.

This sort of backs up what Dennis posted about RF through the air vs affecting wiring in the vicinity.

And at the end of the day, I think the HID's are like anything else. Get what you pay for, buy low end, you'll have issues.
 

Chvyrkr

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People with low end HID's are having issues. Just not with TS chips. Radio's don't work, etc.
 

Lowdown89

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To bad it just isn't "low end" kits that cause problems.... Putting your HIDs in a fancy box does not make them better than a kit from say Vvme which you can buy for $80 all day long....
 

jkidd_39

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Just installed my 55w Retro Solutions kit w/ a DP tuner. No issues of any sort!

I would happily ditch my DP and get someone else's tuning if it was an issue. The light output is freaking amazing!!!
 

kystroker7.3

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Having a head light problem on my 95. I have had a set of ddm tunings hids for over a year and here recently when I turn them on sometimes it kills the truck. Anyone have an idea what could be causing this?? Also i have to get my head light switch to be in just the right place for the head lights to come on along witht all the marker and interior lights. I have replaced the switch itself along with a harness plug from another truck with the same results. Any help whould be grateful Thanks Lance
 

MustangMatt96GT

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What type of chip do you have?

DDM IMO is a cheapy version, You might look to upgrade to Retrofitsolution HIDs, and if you have a DP tuner your probably gonna end up needing a little thing that clips on the cord to take care of any eletrical interference and the HIDs
 

Tom S

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I think a least part of the issue is the headlight switch that is particular in having to be messed with to get all the lights to work.
 

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