How To Tame Larger Injs and Nozzles?

[Curtis@Vision Diesel]

And someone said it was only to tweak the trans shift points :morons:

Come again?

 

[KBMKVIII]

Yes someone in this thread posted live tuning only changes shift points.
Post #22

 

[TyCorr]

And someone said it was only to tweak the trans shift points :morons:

Which affects everything else! If you change a shift point and its low you lose positive boost and now you are smoking out the cars behind you. It's a delicate balancing act. I'm not sure what's upsetting you? Idle quality is the other part of it all.


Tuning is no joke! I am interested in tuning so much so that I could read about it all day, but tuners are against quite a bit. Everybody drives differently. Some people can't improvise their own driving to effect a change in the trucks behavior and don't think they should have to. If one is this.particular, live tuning is a must.

 

[KBMKVIII]

Yes this is true, but not the only thing that gets changed either.

 

[BDP Tuner]

You guys are right with big injectors live tuning is the only way to go.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

Like Matt said, "fast mods" this is a whole different ball game. We had a some injectors in a customers truck with fast fuel mods, and a set of good tunes the truck ran great at cruising speeds. The second you were at an idle and went to accelerate it got touchy in the throttle. Had some live tuning and the PW with the correct ICP made it smooth as glass all around.
Very well said by the way Matt.

Now this is what I don't understand. You can purchase two different versions of the same injector from some companies? One with "fast mods" some without?

I don't see these offered anywhere. I have how ever seen some brands come through that just don't flow (in a realistic time frame) what they are advertised to flow. Who wants to have to run a max of 1k rpm with 5ms/pw to empty the injector they paid good money for?

Why build/offer a product that doesn't operate to its fullest potential. I don't offer an injector using a 600% nozzle because at this time I don't feel it operates to its full potential. As soon as it does it will be available.

I still continue to find ways to improve the operation of even the "stage 1& 2" injectors over what has been offered in the past.

I don't see a reason to offer a less superior product as well as a "fast mod" version.

 

[TyCorr]

Now this is what I don't understand. You can purchase two different versions of the same injector from some companies? One with "fast mods" some without?

I don't see these offered anywhere. I have how ever seen some brands come through that just don't flow (in a realistic time frame) what they are advertised to flow. Who wants to have to run a max of 1k rpm with 5ms/pw to empty the injector they paid good money for?

Why build/offer a product that doesn't operate to its fullest potential. I don't offer an injector using a 600% nozzle because at this time I don't feel it operates to its full potential. As soon as it does it will be available.

I still continue to find ways to improve the operation of even the "stage 1& 2" injectors over what has been offered in the past.

I don't see a reason to offer a less superior product as well as a "fast mod" version.

You've got a pm.

 

[V-Ref]

Now this is what I don't understand. You can purchase two different versions of the same injector from some companies? One with "fast mods" some without?

I don't see these offered anywhere. I have how ever seen some brands come through that just don't flow (in a realistic time frame) what they are advertised to flow. Who wants to have to run a max of 1k rpm with 5ms/pw to empty the injector they paid good money for?

Why build/offer a product that doesn't operate to its fullest potential. I don't offer an injector using a 600% nozzle because at this time I don't feel it operates to its full potential. As soon as it does it will be available.

I still continue to find ways to improve the operation of even the "stage 1& 2" injectors over what has been offered in the past.

I don't see a reason to offer a less superior product as well as a "fast mod" version.

Tim

What track time/dyno sheet/pull accomplishment(s) have P.I.S injectors earned?

I'd be interested in your 200% nozzle and up customers, and if you'd rather PM that info, I understand.

Not looking to start anything. When I was injector shopping, I must've missed you in my review.

Thank you.

 

[Curtis@Vision Diesel]

Now this is what I don't understand. You can purchase two different versions of the same injector from some companies? One with "fast mods" some without?

I don't see these offered anywhere. I have how ever seen some brands come through that just don't flow (in a realistic time frame) what they are advertised to flow. Who wants to have to run a max of 1k rpm with 5ms/pw to empty the injector they paid good money for?

Why build/offer a product that doesn't operate to its fullest potential. I don't offer an injector using a 600% nozzle because at this time I don't feel it operates to its full potential. As soon as it does it will be available.

I still continue to find ways to improve the operation of even the "stage 1& 2" injectors over what has been offered in the past.

I don't see a reason to offer a less superior product as well as a "fast mod" version.

What are you trying to say here? Your not a fan of the fast mods such as fuel and oil sides offered in certain injectors?
We offer an Injector that can have the "fast fual and oil" added to the injector but does not have to be used at that time.
Why not have a full built hybrid(fast mods optional) that can be de-fuled until all supporting mods such as fuel and oil sides are there and then re tune to open them up and run at full potential? I think it's great how many options are out. And you don't have to have a 600% nozzle. Everyone is going to have different opinions especially as an injector builder. I respect that you don't agree with the fast mods and you don't seem to be a fan of the 600% nozzles witch is completely fine.

 

[Gearhead]

Tim can you enlighten us on an injector that takes 5ms to empty with a 200% nozzle? And as far as the fast mods go the machine work to do it takes a few hundred dollars and people are hung up with ratings like 250cc and you cant be competitive if your injectors are always more money than the next guy's for little gain for those people whose combos aren't really going to benefit from them. Also the fast mods make a difference on 200% and up and are mandatory on 400% in my opinion. That's why I specify my stage injectors like I do. Each stage is built to my specs and you can see the differences in price when the nozzle size gets large enough to warrant the extra modifications to the bodies and other parts. Also you always reference rpm being a limiting factor. Even the basic builds perform the same at 3 ms of pulsewidth and 1000, 2000,and 3000 rpms. I would like to see evidence of those that don't.

 

[TyCorr]

Tim can you enlighten us on an injector that takes 5ms to empty with a 200% nozzle? And as far as the fast mods go the machine work to do it takes a few hundred dollars and people are hung up with ratings like 250cc and you cant be competitive if your injectors are always more money than the next guy's for little gain for those people whose combos aren't really going to benefit from them. Also the fast mods make a difference on 200% and up and are mandatory on 400% in my opinion. That's why I specify my stage injectors like I do. Each stage is built to my specs and you can see the differences in price when the nozzle size gets large enough to warrant the extra modifications to the bodies and other parts. Also you always reference rpm being a limiting factor. Even the basic builds perform the same at 3 ms of pulsewidth and 1000, 2000,and 3000 rpms. I would like to see evidence of those that don't.

Me too. I don't wanna send my injectors to one of the builders with poop construction. I'm guessing with goals around 500hp and 275/200 I could do that with any builder. I don't "need" fuel and oil mods.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

Tim

What track time/dyno sheet/pull accomplishment(s) have P.I.S injectors earned?

I'd be interested in your 200% nozzle and up customers, and if you'd rather PM that info, I understand.

Not looking to start anything. When I was injector shopping, I must've missed you in my review.

Thank you.

Results will have to be posted by customers. I do not have hard copies of this info. BDP Tuner may have some info to share. He has tuned, sold, installed and used PIS injectors.

 

[Gearhead]

RE: Injector High RPM Performance

Now I can see somebody who doesn't know what the hell they are doing ruining the return spring pressure of the intensifier piston, but most builders know not to do that. That would prevent the injector from performing at higher rpms because it would take the return of the injector mechanism too long to return to the "reloaded" position.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

What are you trying to say here? Your not a fan of the fast mods such as fuel and oil sides offered in certain injectors?
We offer an Injector that can have the "fast fual and oil" added to the injector but does not have to be used at that time.
Why not have a full built hybrid(fast mods optional) that can be de-fuled until all supporting mods such as fuel and oil sides are there and then re tune to open them up and run at full potential? I think it's great how many options are out. And you don't have to have a 600% nozzle. Everyone is going to have different opinions especially as an injector builder. I respect that you don't agree with the fast mods and you don't seem to be a fan of the 600% nozzles witch is completely fine.

The mods required to make certain injectors operate to thier full capabilities are needed. Some call these "fast mods".

I personally see no sense in building an injector that does not operate to its full capability. If others do then so be it. Just hope everyone request flow #'s for the injectors they purchase.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

Tim can you enlighten us on an injector that takes 5ms to empty with a 200% nozzle? And as far as the fast mods go the machine work to do it takes a few hundred dollars and people are hung up with ratings like 250cc and you cant be competitive if your injectors are always more money than the next guy's for little gain for those people whose combos aren't really going to benefit from them. Also the fast mods make a difference on 200% and up and are mandatory on 400% in my opinion. That's why I specify my stage injectors like I do. Each stage is built to my specs and you can see the differences in price when the nozzle size gets large enough to warrant the extra modifications to the bodies and other parts. Also you always reference rpm being a limiting factor. Even the basic builds perform the same at 3 ms of pulsewidth and 1000, 2000,and 3000 rpms. I would like to see evidence of those that don't.

Never mentioned a 200% nozzle. But a 250/100% injector that requires 5ms and no faster than 1k rpm, needs work. Seen it.

And no, not all builds show the same results at 1k rpms as they do at 2k or 3k. Been there, done that, fixed it. Will have vid to show you soon.

 

[Curtis@Vision Diesel]

The mods required to make certain injectors operate to thier full capabilities are needed. Some call these "fast mods".

I personally see no sense in building an injector that does not operate to its full capability. If others do then so be it. Just hope everyone request flow #'s for the injectors they purchase.

The fast mods are added as an extra into the injector. Not something that has to be used. For instance a 350cc/200 can have fast mods added to it but not have to be used to idle or perform at its full potential. Its more like a bonus pack to if you ever needed that little more punch. But before you start bashing another's injectors you might want to reconsider.
Also as you stated "Just hope flow #'s for the injectors purchase. Matt asked you and you just said you dont even have number to prove what your injectors flow........... so how can you make a statement like that? :badidea:

 

[Gearhead]

But a 250/100% injector that requires 5ms and no faster than 1k rpm, needs work. Seen it.

Okay, did the poppets even open on those?

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

The fast mods are added as an extra into the injector. Not something that has to be used. For instance a 350cc/200 can have fast mods added to it but not have to be used to idle or perform at its full potential. Its more like a bonus pack to if you ever needed that little more punch. But before you start bashing another's injectors you might want to reconsider.
Also as you stated "Just hope flow #'s for the injectors purchase. Matt asked you and you just said you dont even have number to prove what your injectors flow........... so how can you make a statement like that? :badidea:

If you ever see a 350/200 injector without these "mods" you probly would never see 350cc from them, in a realistic time frame.

And I was asked for Dyno/track #'s. I never saw anyone ask for flow #'s.

Does Vision Diesel build injectors?

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

Okay, did the poppets even open on those?

They operated fine at 1k rpm. And would give 250cc if you asked for at least 5ms. Anything above that and it was bad.

Shocked me too.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

RE: Injector High RPM Performance

Now I can see somebody who doesn't know what the hell they are doing ruining the return spring pressure of the intensifier piston, but most builders know not to do that. That would prevent the injector from performing at higher rpms because it would take the return of the injector mechanism too long to return to the "reloaded" position.

Not sure who or what you are referencing From here?