Hydra Users

[imelmo]

It was very clear.

My point must not have been clear. This thread was intended to state that the hydra has an issue or the people behind it have an issue. My only reason for posting was to either let everyone know the issue so it can be defended or confirmed.... OR..... Just simply state they aren't offering tunes for it.

In 2 weeks time this thread could turn quite a few potential customers away from the Hydra. I don't think that is fair for someone that can't defend themselves on the situation.

Again this is just my opinion, would hate for our company to be thrown under the bus and have all of our potential customers sit and wait 2 weeks to hear why our product is inferior.

If I am wrong for thinking that way, so be it and this thread can carry on.

Exactly. The beans need spilled or this thread will be deleted and you can start a new one simply stating that you won't be selling tunes for it and nothing more. Not right to let something like this linger.

.

 

[rat49f6]

I'm "nobody in the know" I asked Johnathan about tubing for my hydra and he briefly described the issue he had with it
I don't know details nor do I wanna speak on behalf of No Limit. I do think that once it's discusses with Bill that either johnathan or jason will speak up

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Xparent Green Tapatalk 2

 

[PTSUPERD]

Exactly. The beans need spilled or this thread will be deleted and you can start a new one simply stating that you won't be selling tunes for it and nothing more. Not right to let something like this linger.

.

I agree.

 

[POWER-STRUCK]

I am also curious, I have not been able to get my hands on a Hydra yet. but my assumptions are that the hydra will use whatever software level that the pcm has on it for the stock tune instead of a default 4 bank stock tune.

for example 94-97 auto default code used is usually TDE1. so if it is an older pcm that has not been upgraded such as NAW4 or TDE0 custom tunes will have to be developed for each and every code!
so here is the list for dpc-202
naw4
mif4
pre4
lkm2
rrz2
naw5
mif5
pre5
naw6
pre6
mif6
mif7
tee2
tee3
tee4
zaa0
tee6
mif0
naw0
naw1
mif1
naw2
mif2
lkm0
rrz0
zaa1
pry2
pry3
pry4
pry5
pre0
pre1
pre2
tee0
pry0
tde0
ybt0
lkm5
tde1
ybt1
lkm6

might have left some out or double posted.

these are my assumptions of the problems related to this matter. don't quote me I could be wrong! could you imagine having to make 40x the files just to be able to cover the 94-97 auto trans? and it would be a similar scenerio for all DPC families.
if this is the issue maybe it could be cut down to a 16 position chip allowing the chip to have a default stock file to be loaded? maybe it does not have enough memory to hold over 4 mega bytes of info.
as I said this is just my assumption and don't take it as a fact.

 

[Tim @ P.I.S.]

I believe you owe it to everyone to explain this. This thread is virtually throwing a sponsoring companies product under the bus with little explanation as to why. Whether it was meant to or not this thread will scare a percentage of people away from buying the Hydra product.

I just believe it is in the best interest of everyone to either leave it as "we wont be offering this service, period"..... Or explain the whole story.


Just my .02 though

I'm sorry but I have seen No Limit say anything other than they will be not offering "said" product.

They did state they would give more detail on this at a later date.

Why has this turned into a witch hunt. I have not seen anyone from the No Limit company state there is any physical issue with the hardware or software. Nor state it is an inferior product. The only claims I see being made are from other vendors. No Limit states they support the TS format.

The way I see this announcement is for those that want to use No Limit tuning be warned they will not support that product.

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

I'm sorry but I have seen No Limit say anything other than they will be not offering "said" product.

They did state they would give more detail on this at a later date.

Why has this turned into a witch hunt. I have not seen anyone from the No Limit company state there is any physical issue with the hardware or software. Nor state it is an inferior product. The only claims I see being made are from other vendors. No Limit states they support the TS format.

The way I see this announcement is for those that want to use No Limit tuning be warned they will not support that product.

Opinions vary! You may be right Tim, who is to say. The only reason I voiced my opinion was I believed it needed to be stated why this was posted without details.
I have nothing against the guys at No Limit, no dog in this fight what so ever. Just trying to give both parties a fair chance as they both support the site equally!

Carry on gentleman

 

[sootie]

Opinions vary! You may be right Tim, who is to say. The only reason I voiced my opinion was I believed it needed to be stated why this was posted without details.
I have nothing against the guys at No Limit, no dog in this fight what so ever. Just trying to give both parties a fair chance as they both support the site equally!

Carry on gentleman

fight?

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

fight?

Metaphor

 

[thuglike]

It seemed pretty clear a reason was to be posted up. We appologize we are not on some people's time frame with that. We were actually doing the due diligence and trying to get ahold of Bill and voicing our concerns directly to him.

The long and short of this. (AND IT WAS CONFIRMED BY BILL)

Any tune we/any other tuner sends to a Hydra user is downloaded onto Bill's server where he has the ABILITY to view and if he wanted to change the tune. HE ASSURED US HE WOULD NEVER do that. This was/is our chief concern and Bill verified it to be true on a phone call with Jonathan earlier today.

We are all about innovative new products for this industry. Our entire goal is to see the market move foward both in hard parts and tuning. We feel, as many of you do, it would be disasterious for tuning to become similar, stagnant and uniformed. The last few years has seen leaps and bounds in the market. PHP's Hydra is just one of them. Our concern was it could of taken the tuning realm to the point where a customer doesn't even know the difference between tunes and tuners.

So once again, to clarify..(in case it wasn't clear a paragraph ago)

Any tune we send to a Hydra customer is downloaded onto the PHP server where the ability is there for it to be viewed and changed...... Jonathan asked Bill via phone conversation today and Bill did verify it to be true

WE WERE TOLD THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN...EVER

We would like to thank Bill at PHP for his honesty and assurances that our concerns, although right, need not be a concern at all.

We are getting a Hydra sent to us (Thanks again Bill) to try out and put through the paces.

 

[thuglike]

Opinions vary! You may be right Tim, who is to say. The only reason I voiced my opinion was I believed it needed to be stated why this was posted without details.
I have nothing against the guys at No Limit, no dog in this fight what so ever. Just trying to give both parties a fair chance as they both support the site equally!

Carry on gentleman

I needed to post up due to the overwhelming pm's asking about it...


We were also trying to get ahold of Bill to confirm or correct our concern.

This is NOT A FIGHT. We have no ill will toward Bill or anyone else at PHP or ANYONE else for that matter.

Hopfully our concern listed in the above post will clear things up a bit.

 

[thuglike]

Have to agree with Derek. I'm in exactly the position he's talking about. I had plans to order a hydra within the week. But how am I supposed to feel after this?


And obviously as the so called problem isn't even presented yet, Bill has no way of defendinghis product in the meantime. I feel like the ddecision shouldn't have been announced until the reasoning was ready to be announced as well.

Please find the word "problem" in my post.....all I said was we would not send tunes for it..never said 1 thing about an issue or problem. All I've ever heard is good to great things about the product and we do not dispute that in any way. Please do not read the post and draw your own conclusions...read it for what it says..there are no hidden messages or innuendos in there.

 

[bruce]

So after this I'm confused to if y'all changed your mind on not doin tunes for the hydra. Seems like Mr bill cleared up any concerns y'all might have had

 

[thuglike]

We do ask for a day or 2 to make a final decision on the Hydra.
It's a decision we will make as a company.

I promise to answer that question in this thread in a day or 2.

 

[Tom S]

I had not looked at the Hydra but why does an emailed tune go PHP's server? Is that part of the process in burning it to the chip or something?

 

[PSD715]

Please find the word "problem" in my post.....all I said was we would not send tunes for it..never said 1 thing about an issue or problem. All I've ever heard is good to great things about the product and we do not dispute that in any way. Please do not read the post and draw your own conclusions...read it for what it says..there are no hidden messages or innuendos in there.

Reading that, I see it didn't come across as I meant it.
I didn't mean a problem as in defect.
But I wouldn't expect you to be concerned with something you didn't see as a potential problem.

 

[thuglike]

Tom,

I'll let Bill explain the process. I do not wish to use incorrect terms or explain things in such a way that minmize the technology and R&D put forth in his product. Bill, feel free to use this thread to explain the process if you care to.

 

[thuglike]

Reading that, I see it didn't come across as I meant it.
I didn't mean a problem as in defect.
But I wouldn't expect you to be concerned with something you didn't see as a potential problem.

Will,

Fair enough. I know it's hard to convey what is really meant behind typed words..

There is NOTHING wrong with the product itself...NOTHING. It's actually a great piece of technology

 

[Derek@Vision Diesel]

We do ask for a day or 2 to make a final decision on the Hydra.
It's a decision we will make as a company.

I promise to answer that question in this thread in a day or 2.

That would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

 

[Power Hungry]

It seemed pretty clear a reason was to be posted up. We appologize we are not on some people's time frame with that. We were actually doing the due diligence and trying to get ahold of Bill and voicing our concerns directly to him.

The long and short of this. (AND IT WAS CONFIRMED BY BILL)

Any tune we/any other tuner sends to a Hydra user is downloaded onto Bill's server where he has the ABILITY to view and if he wanted to change the tune. HE ASSURED US HE WOULD NEVER do that. This was/is our chief concern and Bill verified it to be true on a phone call with Jonathan earlier today.

This is incorrect. I know this is just a misunderstanding. I address this in my post below...

We are all about innovative new products for this industry. Our entire goal is to see the market move foward both in hard parts and tuning. We feel, as many of you do, it would be disasterious for tuning to become similar, stagnant and uniformed. The last few years has seen leaps and bounds in the market. PHP's Hydra is just one of them. Our concern was it could of taken the tuning realm to the point where a customer doesn't even know the difference between tunes and tuners.

So once again, to clarify..(in case it wasn't clear a paragraph ago)

Any tune we send to a Hydra customer is downloaded onto the PHP server where the ability is there for it to be viewed and changed...... Jonathan asked Bill via phone conversation today and Bill did verify it to be true

This is incorrect. I know this is just a misunderstanding. I address this in my post below...

WE WERE TOLD THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN...EVER

We would like to thank Bill at PHP for his honesty and assurances that our concerns, although right, need not be a concern at all.

We are getting a Hydra sent to us (Thanks again Bill) to try out and put through the paces.

Let's get all this speculation cleared up right now...


I spoke to Jonathan at length yesterday (08/14) regarding his concerns with the Hydra chip. Jonathan and I have always had good communication pathways and I was able to put his mind at ease regarding his concerns. The issue, in a nutshell, boils down to the fact that they had concerns with the security of their tuned files when they are sent to customers. Here is the final word on how our software and encryption works.



Regarding the HydraFlash software and the programming processes:

First... NEVER EVER are any files transferred to our server. We don't even log programming events anymore (which we did do with Phoenix Flash, but strictly as an effort to provide improved support for burner/chip issues with the TS chip). File transfer from our server is ONE-WAY. We do not send ANYTHING back to our server. PERIOD!

Second... The ONLY TIME the HydraFlash contacts our server is during startup to:

(1) Check our website to see if there is a software update available (and this is a Microsoft Visual Studio feature, not something we created)

and

(2) Validate the software license available to any given user and determine what files are available for download from our server. Since most HydraFlash users will fall under the "Default" user license, this means that they can download any of our standard 7.3L calibrations (which are available for free on our server), or they can load Encrypted and/or Unencrypted binary files which are e-mailed to them from their particular tuner of choice.

Third... UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES are end users allowed to READ ANY FILES (custom or otherwise) from a chip. Even dealers and custom tuners do not have the ability to read files from a chip. Furthermore, while PHP would obviously have the capability to read files from a chip (I mean, it is our design), UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will PHP ever read files from a customer's chip that has tunes written by another tuner, and we especially would not provide those tunes to a customer or tuner.




Regarding the encryption utility that we provide to customer tuners and dealers:

The encryption utility encrypts the custom files based on the unique serial number of the customer's chip. This means that if a customer orders tunes from their tuner of choice, the files that they receive will only work on THEIR chip. They WILL NOT work on ANYONE ELSE'S chip. This was done to prevent people sharing files and basically cheating the tuner out of fair revenue for their time, effort, and knowledge. Only the HydraFlash software can decrypt the calibrations. There is no standalone decryption utility available, so NOBODY can decrypt the files once they are encrypted.




In conclusion:

As a person that has been in this industry going on 16 years now, I take tuning very seriously and have experienced the anger and frustration of having my custom files copied by other tuners. With that in mind, I make every possible effort to provide our dealers and custom tuners with a safe, secure platform with which they can distribute custom files to their customers. I have a great deal of respect for ALL tuners and would never compromise my integrity by ignoring another tuner's right to the privacy of their files.

We have designed and built the Hydra Chip and HydraFlash software to provide a simple, flexible, and secure package for EVERYONE to use. We provide the software and encryption utilities for free to anyone who would like to use them. We do not charge monthly license or subscription fees for the "privilege" of being able to write tunes for the Hydra Chip. We provide a solid product and we do our best to keep prices fair and competitive. We're very proud of the Hydra system and hope that everyone can appreciate the time, effort, and thought that went into the design of it. Of course, we are still continuing to make improvements as well as adding new features and options, all of which will be announced as they are released.




I hope this clears up any confusion regarding the Hydra Chip and HydraFlash software. If anyone has any further concerns, please don't hesitate to contact us directly.

Take care and God bless.

 

[PTSUPERD]

Let's get all this speculation cleared up right now...


I spoke to Jonathan at length yesterday (08/14) regarding his concerns with the Hydra chip. Jonathan and I have always had good communication pathways and I was able to put his mind at ease regarding his concerns. The issue, in a nutshell, boils down to the fact that they had concerns with the security of their tuned files when they are sent to customers. Here is the final word on how our software and encryption works.



Regarding the HydraFlash software and the programming processes:

First... NEVER EVER are any files transferred to our server. We don't even log programming events anymore (which we did do with Phoenix Flash, but strictly as an effort to provide improved support for burner/chip issues with the TS chip). File transfer from our server is ONE-WAY. We do not send ANYTHING back to our server. PERIOD!

Second... The ONLY TIME the HydraFlash contacts our server is during startup to:

(1) Check our website to see if there is a software update available (and this is a Microsoft Visual Studio feature, not something we created)

and

(2) Validate the software license available to any given user and determine what files are available for download from our server. Since most HydraFlash users will fall under the "Default" user license, this means that they can download any of our standard 7.3L calibrations (which are available for free on our server), or they can load Encrypted and/or Unencrypted binary files which are e-mailed to them from their particular tuner of choice.

Third... UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES are end users allowed to READ ANY FILES (custom or otherwise) from a chip. Even dealers and custom tuners do not have the ability to read files from a chip. Furthermore, while PHP would obviously have the capability to read files from a chip (I mean, it is our design), UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will PHP ever read files from a customer's chip that has tunes written by another tuner, and we especially would not provide those tunes to a customer or tuner.




Regarding the encryption utility that we provide to customer tuners and dealers:

The encryption utility encrypts the custom files based on the unique serial number of the customer's chip. This means that if a customer orders tunes from their tuner of choice, the files that they receive will only work on THEIR chip. They WILL NOT work on ANYONE ELSE'S chip. This was done to prevent people sharing files and basically cheating the tuner out of fair revenue for their time, effort, and knowledge. Only the HydraFlash software can decrypt the calibrations. There is no standalone decryption utility available, so NOBODY can decrypt the files once they are encrypted.




In conclusion:

As a person that has been in this industry going on 16 years now, I take tuning very seriously and have experienced the anger and frustration of having my custom files copied by other tuners. With that in mind, I make every possible effort to provide our dealers and custom tuners with a safe, secure platform with which they can distribute custom files to their customers. I have a great deal of respect for ALL tuners and would never compromise my integrity by ignoring another tuner's right to the privacy of their files.

We have designed and built the Hydra Chip and HydraFlash software to provide a simple, flexible, and secure package for EVERYONE to use. We provide the software and encryption utilities for free to anyone who would like to use them. We do not charge monthly license or subscription fees for the "privilege" of being able to write tunes for the Hydra Chip. We provide a solid product and we do our best to keep prices fair and competitive. We're very proud of the Hydra system and hope that everyone can appreciate the time, effort, and thought that went into the design of it. Of course, we are still continuing to make improvements as well as adding new features and options, all of which will be announced as they are released.




I hope this clears up any confusion regarding the Hydra Chip and HydraFlash software. If anyone has any further concerns, please don't hesitate to contact us directly.

Take care and God bless.

:thumbup:

Great post Bill