twelch3
New member
My truck is doing this same thing,but is running rough all the time.I'm thinking injectors may have trash in them. I'm going to drop the tank tomorrow to inspect it.OP hope you get it figured out.
IDM's what a waste. : )
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neverkickn
New member
Might wanna look in the fuel bowl first.
Big Bore
Active member
Marauder, if you have a spare single pump or can get one, swap out the twin pumps and see if you still have the problem.
Talyn
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Addressing the ICP pressure on the scanguage.
Its normal for them to bounce around 200-300 psi.
AE is the only "true" way to get an accurate ICP reading, I belive its making an average, cause ICP really jumps every time the IPR opens, so AE averages it out.
That's my guess on it anyways.
But from every scangauge I've seen and owner i've talked to, its around 200-300 changes in the ICP pressure.
Its normal for them to bounce around 200-300 psi.
AE is the only "true" way to get an accurate ICP reading, I belive its making an average, cause ICP really jumps every time the IPR opens, so AE averages it out.
That's my guess on it anyways.
But from every scangauge I've seen and owner i've talked to, its around 200-300 changes in the ICP pressure.
Big Bore
Active member
What about a mechanical gauge?
The oil aeration issue does seem to be problem with idle quaility and driveability issues. Everything that I have seen and read seems to point out dual pumps and gen 3 as the worst setups for aeration. I am in no way knocking or down grading either setup, just making a point. My answer for it ( although maybe not the easiest or most simple) is to try a srp 1 or like single setup to see what the changes are. Also, I was running a xpc 4 pcm and switched it to a dac 3. I did not have issues with the xpc 4, but did see a improvement in power and driveability with the dac 3 swap fwiw.
To OP did you find out what color cps yet? As I have also saw idle improvements by ditching the gray ones for black.
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Big Bore
Active member
Aeration is not a tuning issue. Its how the pumps and IPR are setup thats the issue.
Zmann
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Marauder
Did u consider having Strictly help u diagnose?
Did u consider having Strictly help u diagnose?
V-Ref
Active member
I'll ASSume you're referring to my post. To be clear...I don't think software can make bubbles in our engine oil system either...Bubble Tune LOL
It is MHO, that different tuning approaches/philospies to warm idle tuning can either mask or exacerbate what I'm guessing is a oil aeration symptom (in my truck at least)...a rompy warm idle.
Sounds like you have some knowledge/experience to share on this though....what is the right way to setup the pumps and IPR?
What HPOP systems have you ran and what was your experiences with them regarding oil aeration?
Edit-BB I see your dual IPR thread....
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Big Bore
Active member
Yes, go to the link in my last post and read that thread. Pay attention to HRT and Charles posts as they are the most valid. Pay very close attention to the post where HRT starts talking about velocity of the oil through the single IPR. I have saved several pasts in that thread to a document. Suffice to say, the manufacturer of your pump has the solution.
They are working just fine after I replaced the both of them. You can tell the differences unloaded and loaded. Before I was getting a jerky type or inconsistence reading. Sort of sticky operation.
Mine is a APX1.
My issue is nothing like aeration. Like this morning I drove it slow keeping the RPM under 1500. Then bam! I get the surging/injector on and off issue.
Pull up to a light, let it idle and it purrs like a kitten. WTF? Leave the light and it comes back when coasting at part throttle. It's almost like I have two different issues. Stop at the next light and it feels like I dropped an injector. leave the light it sputters and jumps off of the line....go figure?
I've been exposed to motors that spin up to 11,000 rpm. I have viewed the oil at that RPM. It's a frothy mess, but once off the throttle and the oil returns back to the sump...within 3-5 seconds the froth is gone! Oil companies go to great lengths to resolve this issue.
Yes. I can pull my Dipstick and see bubbles on it, but there is more solid oil around those bubbles than the bubbles themselves. On the second dip of the stick the bubbles are almost all gone. These are large bubbles not the microscopic bubbles that don't go away for a long time.
Your Sir are correct....My scan gauge won't read "Injector Timing" although it has a PID for it. Back to the drawing board! : )
Oil is changed every 3 thou. I have 1200 miles on this change and it'd junk with all the soot in the oil. so It's coming out. I run Delo 400 LE. Been using it since day one. The romp is unpredictable it comes and goes. The IPR and ICP sensor are new. The pumps have just been gone through less than 300 miles ago and their pressure is outstanding. In DD tune 3200 is the norm. Sooty as hell though at WOT, hell it's sooty everywhere! : )
The LPOP was new 27,000 miles ago so i should have good pressure.
EOT is good to go as well and I agree with you...it shouldn't be an issue.
The one thing I have noticed is that the PCM runs a tad warm. Is the norm?
Right where the chip is located.
That crossed my mine as well, but mine runs great when the sun and planets fall into place! Then goes temporary into the ****ter. Sort of a Jeckle and Hyde operation. Good Luck with your truck you'll get it running right.
I had these same pumps when I ran my Stage II's and I had nothing like this drive ability issue. Seems now that these Hybrids just might be a tad tricky to set up with a turbo that no one has any specs on wouldn't you think? I think I might be on to something here.
Good information to share! Wish I knew that about two weeks ago!
A new IPR and ICP Sensor can't hurt!
Man I'm sorry I haven't had a chance been way to busy here at the house.
Remodeling the house and I try to take my mind off of the truck to clear my head and then hit it with a clear mind again.
I did dig up some old paperwork to check on a part number, the weather here is only 102 today so I guess I can go out and lay on the ground.... At my age when I lay down I usually take a Nap!
Yes, I have been chatting with Nate and Dennis both. As well with Joey @ Terminator Eng. I have a couple more things I want to test and check.
I promise I'll fill you all in on what I find with my %$#*& truck. :jawdrop:
Again thanks for all the ideas!
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Big Bore
Active member
Why would that cause aeration or affect ICP at all? You are expending a lot of energy beating your head against a wall trying to find a problem, but you wont even consider the pumps being a problem? I'm suggesting swapping a stock pump back in because...I've been exactly where you are with the same pumps. Regardless of what anyone else is saying, if you don't swap them out, you can not eliminate it as the problem.
TrailerHauler
Active member
Have you considered having the injectors checked out and flowed? If I remember correctly v-ref had a vaguely similar problem that ended up being an injector issue, I'm sure he can give more details or correct me.
It run right!
Well I can say for sure now that my pumps are not my problem.
I appreciate your help, but why booger something that worked before and is working now. One of the hardest things to do during this problem was trying to weed through the all the chaff and stick to known changes that I had made and addressing them. It's just so hard while being new to this "Diesel Engine" format, and the HEUI makes things more complicated. follow me down below......
I read what V-Ref went through as well and it gave me the creeps!!!
One of the major reason I went with Jim @ Rosewood Injectors was that he flow tested every injector, then balanced them as a set. So if there is a weak one in the pile it would surely show up. So I figured I am golden in the injector department. To be honest this was my next area of focus. Not with Jim's work, but rather something I might have booger up myself during the install.
It Runs!
It was the TS chip.....or was it?
I replaced the TS with a DP Tuner chip and all my issues went away.
The truck purrs like a kitten all the time. It makes good power considering it just a temporary tune to get me by for testing purposes. Can it be better?
Sure it can. It really needs to be dialed in. In all honesty to tune a motor like mine is almost like a "Hail Mary Pass", to think that you can mail order a chip and have it 100% is nuts. Jody got the tune pretty damn close, but then I understand that he has a GQSSB on his personal ride. Pruis builds a killer turbo and it's like he works at Lockheed's "Skunk Works", but how do you tune for the unknown? Then throw on top a bitchy set of injectors with a narrow window to get them right......you can see just how this all added up and sent me on a wild goose chase. Although it was a great lesson in tuning for me and just how hard tuning from a distance can be.
I want to thank Dennis and Nate @ Strictly Diesel for letting me bounce things off of them.
Jody @ DP Tuner for writting me a test chip. Thanks Guys!
Joey @ Terminator for grounding me with some sage advice! He nailed my issue after viewing my videos. He was the only one that nailed it out of the gate. I was a step ahead of him, but he was solid on the issue were I wasn't.
Most of all you guys on the list here. Some gave me some major gray hair, while others offered sage advice that made sense. I guess that is what a community is all about!
Think I'll go out for a drive!
Well I can say for sure now that my pumps are not my problem.
I appreciate your help, but why booger something that worked before and is working now. One of the hardest things to do during this problem was trying to weed through the all the chaff and stick to known changes that I had made and addressing them. It's just so hard while being new to this "Diesel Engine" format, and the HEUI makes things more complicated. follow me down below......
I read what V-Ref went through as well and it gave me the creeps!!!
One of the major reason I went with Jim @ Rosewood Injectors was that he flow tested every injector, then balanced them as a set. So if there is a weak one in the pile it would surely show up. So I figured I am golden in the injector department. To be honest this was my next area of focus. Not with Jim's work, but rather something I might have booger up myself during the install.
It Runs!
It was the TS chip.....or was it?
I replaced the TS with a DP Tuner chip and all my issues went away.
The truck purrs like a kitten all the time. It makes good power considering it just a temporary tune to get me by for testing purposes. Can it be better?
Sure it can. It really needs to be dialed in. In all honesty to tune a motor like mine is almost like a "Hail Mary Pass", to think that you can mail order a chip and have it 100% is nuts. Jody got the tune pretty damn close, but then I understand that he has a GQSSB on his personal ride. Pruis builds a killer turbo and it's like he works at Lockheed's "Skunk Works", but how do you tune for the unknown? Then throw on top a bitchy set of injectors with a narrow window to get them right......you can see just how this all added up and sent me on a wild goose chase. Although it was a great lesson in tuning for me and just how hard tuning from a distance can be.
I want to thank Dennis and Nate @ Strictly Diesel for letting me bounce things off of them.
Jody @ DP Tuner for writting me a test chip. Thanks Guys!
Joey @ Terminator for grounding me with some sage advice! He nailed my issue after viewing my videos. He was the only one that nailed it out of the gate. I was a step ahead of him, but he was solid on the issue were I wasn't.
Most of all you guys on the list here. Some gave me some major gray hair, while others offered sage advice that made sense. I guess that is what a community is all about!
Think I'll go out for a drive!
V-Ref
Active member
Maurauder
Be interested in hearing if this new tuning has still fixed your issue after you get some more time running it.
Be interested in hearing if this new tuning has still fixed your issue after you get some more time running it.
