I have gone through 4 engines 18 months with $60,000+ in repairs/towing. I am putting together a case for breach of warranty (Ford refused warranty on every failure). Also for the junk defective pistons that crack like an egg. I am not looking to debate any of this its a fact, I've lived it. If you have been through these same issues I am looking for people with repair bills/pictures/PROOF of these engines cracking pistons. Please get in contact with me if you have anything. This could be a huge help to a lot of people.
If you've had a 6.4 crack pistons please read
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weekendwarriorfsw32
New member
Was the truck stock or programed?
webb06
Active member
Here's a few pics I had on my phone if you want to use them. All from different trucks.
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Thanks I definitely do. Look just like mine, no problem other than cracked. I'd really like to get some repair orders, estimates, or bills on anything I can, and maybe a short written statement of the name of each person and any contact info your willing to volunteer. Any one can just go out and get pictures but I need a name and a person behind them, and a bill would be a huge help that shows cracked pistons. My email is [email protected]. I am more than willing to give my cell phone as well. If I put together a case that wins, it opens the door for many others to do the same.
Here is the back story for those who think I am just the typical asshole that neglects his truck and got what he deserves. There are plenty of those on these sites, I am not one of them.
No I am fine with giving some info if you are actually looking to help the situation but I am not looking to get into a discussion over what the actual fault of the failures is which is quickly what this is turning into. I have been down this road for two years and tired of hearing you had to do something wrong or its your problem. I've had a very reputable shop working on my truck and I know what I am talking about or I just keep my mouth shut. 4 engines in that time is very much just the engine, pistons to be exact. I kept the last two blocks that cracked pistons and they show that no injector is stuck, nothing is melted, and everything is normal, just cracked. I maintain my trucks as they should be by the book and with all OEM Ford parts, including brake pads and batteries so no maintenance is not the issue.
The first failure happened at 102,000 just out of warranty. A long block was installed by a Ford dealer full of idiots in Oklahoma. It was claimed to be a stuck injector. I should mention the fact that they wanted to reuse all but one injector in the new long block, I refused and paid for all 8 to be replaced since they blamed the issue on that. I went above and beyond at every breakdown to be sure everything was replaced and done right. Then 30 days later at about 105,000 it failed again in the same manor this time in Vegas. Again to a Ford dealer who put the blame on the previous dealer for not changing the fuel pump. I never saw any parts of the truck on either of these failures but the both had the same symptoms.
The third failure came with a $20,000 bill and a compete engine with another complete warranty. That is a complete drop in replacement, new pump, injectors, everything. 5 months and about 15,000 miles later if fails again. I tow it 800 miles home to a dealer where I can take my time and be there daily to be sure it gets fixed right. At this point I still know nothing of the piston issues of the 6.4. The dealer promises to work with me to be sure the truck is warrantied and get it fixed correctly. They don't they refuse warranty and claim it to be a stuck injector due to bad fuel. I loose my cool and promptly tow it to a private owned diesel shop. Upon finishing the tear down it was found that a piston was simply cracked in half. No injectors stuck, nothing melted. It still had oil all over the piston and cylinder walls, and still had carbon on top of the pistons. Everything was fine just cracked in half, except for the fact that the idiots at the dealer left my fuel pump torn open so it corroded and bent the hell out of the compressor wheels on my turbo. We rebuilt the engine with the same injectors, had to use a new fuel pump, and did some other things. ******d it, studded it, ceramic coated the pistons, and tuned the truck down some.
It ran for a year and about 20,000 miles and did the exact same thing again. This time when we called for warranty on the short block that was purchased from Ford they said that unless it spun a crank bearing they will not warranty a 6.4 short block. Another words we know the pistons are garbage so we just keep blowing those claims off. They use the fuel card as a way to put it on the customer. In my case I see these issues way faster and more often than most because my truck is an F450 box truck that runs around at about 80% of its max capacity at all times. you would never see it this often in a pick up.
This is a serious thing, Ford is ripping people off, and the two blocks I have are proof of it. What I need is expert opinions that know this is a huge well known issue, and will speak on it. I am also looking for customers of Ford with pictures, and bills that show these issues so I can prove it is a very prevalent issue. I want to go to court with at least 24 documented cases of this happening so I can show a jury that this is a prevalent thing that Ford is ignoring, and even installing more engines and parts with the same problems that come with a warranty they already know they will not honor. I have lost a lot more than money in this battle, I have almost lost my business, a chance at buying a home, and a few employees. You can call me an idiot for fixing the truck over and over but when your that far in, and a Ford dealer keeps giving you a warranty and claiming it is fixed right you keep telling yourself it has to be right this time. I have obviously now discovered the International Max Force pistons, which even more tell the tale that Ford is ripping people off and covering up the trash they are selling. A cab and chassis should of had those pistons from day one. The truck is rated as something like a 26,000 lb GCVWR. The worst part is I have owned nothing but Fords my whole life and ALWAYS serviced them at a dealer or myself with ALL ford parts. I was a die hard, I am that ******* that loves his 6.0 and will take it to the grave, I have 5 fords right now, and every time I get in one of them I want to vomit now.
No I am fine with giving some info if you are actually looking to help the situation but I am not looking to get into a discussion over what the actual fault of the failures is which is quickly what this is turning into. I have been down this road for two years and tired of hearing you had to do something wrong or its your problem. I've had a very reputable shop working on my truck and I know what I am talking about or I just keep my mouth shut. 4 engines in that time is very much just the engine, pistons to be exact. I kept the last two blocks that cracked pistons and they show that no injector is stuck, nothing is melted, and everything is normal, just cracked. I maintain my trucks as they should be by the book and with all OEM Ford parts, including brake pads and batteries so no maintenance is not the issue.
The first failure happened at 102,000 just out of warranty. A long block was installed by a Ford dealer full of idiots in Oklahoma. It was claimed to be a stuck injector. I should mention the fact that they wanted to reuse all but one injector in the new long block, I refused and paid for all 8 to be replaced since they blamed the issue on that. I went above and beyond at every breakdown to be sure everything was replaced and done right. Then 30 days later at about 105,000 it failed again in the same manor this time in Vegas. Again to a Ford dealer who put the blame on the previous dealer for not changing the fuel pump. I never saw any parts of the truck on either of these failures but the both had the same symptoms.
The third failure came with a $20,000 bill and a compete engine with another complete warranty. That is a complete drop in replacement, new pump, injectors, everything. 5 months and about 15,000 miles later if fails again. I tow it 800 miles home to a dealer where I can take my time and be there daily to be sure it gets fixed right. At this point I still know nothing of the piston issues of the 6.4. The dealer promises to work with me to be sure the truck is warrantied and get it fixed correctly. They don't they refuse warranty and claim it to be a stuck injector due to bad fuel. I loose my cool and promptly tow it to a private owned diesel shop. Upon finishing the tear down it was found that a piston was simply cracked in half. No injectors stuck, nothing melted. It still had oil all over the piston and cylinder walls, and still had carbon on top of the pistons. Everything was fine just cracked in half, except for the fact that the idiots at the dealer left my fuel pump torn open so it corroded and bent the hell out of the compressor wheels on my turbo. We rebuilt the engine with the same injectors, had to use a new fuel pump, and did some other things. ******d it, studded it, ceramic coated the pistons, and tuned the truck down some.
It ran for a year and about 20,000 miles and did the exact same thing again. This time when we called for warranty on the short block that was purchased from Ford they said that unless it spun a crank bearing they will not warranty a 6.4 short block. Another words we know the pistons are garbage so we just keep blowing those claims off. They use the fuel card as a way to put it on the customer. In my case I see these issues way faster and more often than most because my truck is an F450 box truck that runs around at about 80% of its max capacity at all times. you would never see it this often in a pick up.
This is a serious thing, Ford is ripping people off, and the two blocks I have are proof of it. What I need is expert opinions that know this is a huge well known issue, and will speak on it. I am also looking for customers of Ford with pictures, and bills that show these issues so I can prove it is a very prevalent issue. I want to go to court with at least 24 documented cases of this happening so I can show a jury that this is a prevalent thing that Ford is ignoring, and even installing more engines and parts with the same problems that come with a warranty they already know they will not honor. I have lost a lot more than money in this battle, I have almost lost my business, a chance at buying a home, and a few employees. You can call me an idiot for fixing the truck over and over but when your that far in, and a Ford dealer keeps giving you a warranty and claiming it is fixed right you keep telling yourself it has to be right this time. I have obviously now discovered the International Max Force pistons, which even more tell the tale that Ford is ripping people off and covering up the trash they are selling. A cab and chassis should of had those pistons from day one. The truck is rated as something like a 26,000 lb GCVWR. The worst part is I have owned nothing but Fords my whole life and ALWAYS serviced them at a dealer or myself with ALL ford parts. I was a die hard, I am that ******* that loves his 6.0 and will take it to the grave, I have 5 fords right now, and every time I get in one of them I want to vomit now.
webb06
Active member
What's the time frame from the first failure to the most recent? Months or years?
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Geralddunbar995
Member
My last service truck was a 2008 F550 with the 6.4. 5 engines that all failed due to piston failures. No warranty from Ford on any of them, and we did complete engines every single time. Two fuel system replacements. We spent over $100k on the truck. The last time the fuel system went down, they bought me a 2015. Truck was serviced and we used all Ford parts for everything.
6.4's have a known problem with breaking pistons, but 4 engines in less than 2 years is almost certainly a lack of proper diagnosis, shoddy workmanship, or both. Either way it sounds like you've gotten the shaft, best of luck in what is sure to be a long uphill battle.
mustardbucket107
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Wish I had something to add, it's too bad that ford is willing to stick customers with repair bills like this. To bad a person couldn't round up all the bad blocks/ parts and drop them off in front of corporate head quarters. No wonder they didn't need a bail out, the customers paid for it in poor engineering and refused warranty claims.
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FordTechChase
New member
Not sure if the photos will attach but I'm doing typical 6.4 things this weeekend, building a new short block and swapping it out due to a cracked #2 piston. Something went threw #8 at some point as their is some witness marks in the top of the piston. Truck had a turbo failure in the last year/10k miles. Truck is a 2009 450 with 149k. Only been tuned the last year or so since turbo failures.
Aside from the chunk missing from the piston this is honestly one of the better 6.4s I've torn down at this mileage. Rocker tips still look good, no wear in the valve bridges, no hurt lifters.
Going with a ESB, 2 heads, 8 injectors and a new HPP due to getting parts cheap enough. Also using new rockers on both sides so I won't have to open it back up.
Aside from the chunk missing from the piston this is honestly one of the better 6.4s I've torn down at this mileage. Rocker tips still look good, no wear in the valve bridges, no hurt lifters.
Going with a ESB, 2 heads, 8 injectors and a new HPP due to getting parts cheap enough. Also using new rockers on both sides so I won't have to open it back up.
Attachments
I am doing my best to keep up with my posts on forums but I am in my busiest season at work and it is hard. I will try to answer everything.
Webb06:
The time frame was as follows:
Failure 1 approximetly 102,000 miles March of 2014 in Oklahoma
Failure 2 Approximetly 104,000 miles May of 2014 in Nevada
Failure 3 Approximetly 116,000 miles October of 2014 in Virgina
Failure 4 Approximetly 135,000 Miles October of 2015 in Ohio
Truck is currently being rebuilt from the October 2015 failure with Max Force pistons
CTC:
I am guessing you mean EGT? I am not an expert so I am not sure. But I was never monitoring it for the first 3 because the truck was stock. For rebuild 4 the truck was ******d, pistons ceramic coated, and tuned down some to try to get more life out of it. It was even tuned to automatically defuel if EGT hit 1200 I believe was the temp but I have been with out the truck for almost 8 months so I could be off a bit on that temp. I would have to verify with the shop but I am pretty sure it was 1200. And the truck was generally running between 7-900 from what I remember but again its been a long time back.
geralddnbar:
Is this a company truck or your own truck? That is the exact case I am trying to find more of. I need some documentation on something like that. i would bet your fuel system being replaced was a complete waste of time and money. THey did the same thing to me and always blamed that when the real cause was just a cracked piston. THe last dealership that looked at it wanted to play that blame the fuel game and that is when I took it to a private show and we put it back together with all 8 of the same fuel injectors it had previous to the failure. They always blame the fuel as a scape goat, and have you spending thousands on pumps and injectors for no reason when in reality the problem is simply the piston. So not only are you wasting money of fuel system parts you dont need, your also not fixing the problem so you can just live through it again in a few months. Please get in contact with me so i can try to get some paperwork and photos or any proof of this you have.
6.4f350:
As for 4 engines in less than two years being bad work ect, I think my issue is more because the truck is an F450 with a box. So the truck is heavy 100% of the time unlike a pickup. My truck always weighs 18,000 pounds or more. Most 6.4 dont see this kind of workload 100% of the time. My truck has never been over its limits but is close to them all the time and that is why I see the problem so much more frequent than most. But as you said it is a deffinite issue.
mustardbucket:
I have the last two blocks from my truck with pistons in them, cracked in half. That is exactly what I am trying to do here is gather every one elses work orders, reciepts, bills, and pictures, to show how prevelent this issue is. I am also looking for any experts that are willing to put thier knowledge of this in a letter or document.
fordtechchase:
It seems you have a lot of insight on this and if you are a ford tech that sees this a lot you could be a big help. I really need some pictures and some documentation to go with them. If you can get me anything like that I would be very apreciative.
Webb06:
The time frame was as follows:
Failure 1 approximetly 102,000 miles March of 2014 in Oklahoma
Failure 2 Approximetly 104,000 miles May of 2014 in Nevada
Failure 3 Approximetly 116,000 miles October of 2014 in Virgina
Failure 4 Approximetly 135,000 Miles October of 2015 in Ohio
Truck is currently being rebuilt from the October 2015 failure with Max Force pistons
CTC:
I am guessing you mean EGT? I am not an expert so I am not sure. But I was never monitoring it for the first 3 because the truck was stock. For rebuild 4 the truck was ******d, pistons ceramic coated, and tuned down some to try to get more life out of it. It was even tuned to automatically defuel if EGT hit 1200 I believe was the temp but I have been with out the truck for almost 8 months so I could be off a bit on that temp. I would have to verify with the shop but I am pretty sure it was 1200. And the truck was generally running between 7-900 from what I remember but again its been a long time back.
geralddnbar:
Is this a company truck or your own truck? That is the exact case I am trying to find more of. I need some documentation on something like that. i would bet your fuel system being replaced was a complete waste of time and money. THey did the same thing to me and always blamed that when the real cause was just a cracked piston. THe last dealership that looked at it wanted to play that blame the fuel game and that is when I took it to a private show and we put it back together with all 8 of the same fuel injectors it had previous to the failure. They always blame the fuel as a scape goat, and have you spending thousands on pumps and injectors for no reason when in reality the problem is simply the piston. So not only are you wasting money of fuel system parts you dont need, your also not fixing the problem so you can just live through it again in a few months. Please get in contact with me so i can try to get some paperwork and photos or any proof of this you have.
6.4f350:
As for 4 engines in less than two years being bad work ect, I think my issue is more because the truck is an F450 with a box. So the truck is heavy 100% of the time unlike a pickup. My truck always weighs 18,000 pounds or more. Most 6.4 dont see this kind of workload 100% of the time. My truck has never been over its limits but is close to them all the time and that is why I see the problem so much more frequent than most. But as you said it is a deffinite issue.
mustardbucket:
I have the last two blocks from my truck with pistons in them, cracked in half. That is exactly what I am trying to do here is gather every one elses work orders, reciepts, bills, and pictures, to show how prevelent this issue is. I am also looking for any experts that are willing to put thier knowledge of this in a letter or document.
fordtechchase:
It seems you have a lot of insight on this and if you are a ford tech that sees this a lot you could be a big help. I really need some pictures and some documentation to go with them. If you can get me anything like that I would be very apreciative.
drunk on diesel
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a box truck is a big wind block too... you're running that thing at peak load for sure
Sounds exactly like a situation I came across(6.0) this passed winter. Customer was technically running under gvwr, but the truck wasn't specd out to be running 80mph loaded with a box and pulling a double axle, yet he wasted 3 motors in 5 years and wasted a set of head gaskets on a reman(with studs) with 10k on it.
Geralddunbar995
Member
Yeah. My service truck was a 08 F-550 with the 6.4. It weighed in right at 19.5k all the time. Big service bed, crane, welder, tools, etc. it killed the 4 engines stock. Ford charged us nearly $20k each time it died, citing bogus claims about maintenance and so forth. I do love my 2015 F-550 service truck with the 6.7, though.
They're full of ***kin shti too. They knew the 6.4 was crap and they learned how to deny coverage from the 6l. Ford did much to cover up the reputation of the 6.4l as a failure after they saw how quickly the 6l rep got around. And the 6.4 is worse than the 6l multiple times over.
If I was in a questionable situation with a 20k dollar repair bill, my attorney gets involved.
If I was in a questionable situation with a 20k dollar repair bill, my attorney gets involved.
Im a ford diehard but their practices whether corporate or dealership can be shady as hell.
I fought hell with them over a trans in our van that went out at 96k miles. It was under warranty until 100k or 4 of 2012. The recall was issued while we had warranty still. I called and explained the recall and also that Ive been telling them i think the converter is going out. Since 2010 @60k miles. They had done 3 trans services and all the maintenance up to that point. Long story shorter, they didnt have parts for the recall so they said they'd call when they did. I began calling once a week in June. In August the converter went out, which was the recalled part. It ruined the trans obviously. They had four years of documentation that it was suspect. To which they said "no, its fine. We checked it out". Then they tried to sell me a trans and converter. I was like "you already owed me a converter". After two weeks and tons of calls I went and picked it up. I brought with me any part, fluid, or product from them I bought and had receipt for for return (had an account with the parts dept), and reminded them that I had bought 13 vehicles there and ten from their gm dealer. My family and my wifes family we figured buy 8 vehicles per year from them. Screw em. They called me two years later to ask why i hadnt bought a new duramax ir car lately. I told them what happened. The owner called me and I said I would buy a new vehicle if they fired the service manager that ***ked me over. They canned him and I went in the next week to buy a vehicle. Shady. Shady shady.
I fought hell with them over a trans in our van that went out at 96k miles. It was under warranty until 100k or 4 of 2012. The recall was issued while we had warranty still. I called and explained the recall and also that Ive been telling them i think the converter is going out. Since 2010 @60k miles. They had done 3 trans services and all the maintenance up to that point. Long story shorter, they didnt have parts for the recall so they said they'd call when they did. I began calling once a week in June. In August the converter went out, which was the recalled part. It ruined the trans obviously. They had four years of documentation that it was suspect. To which they said "no, its fine. We checked it out". Then they tried to sell me a trans and converter. I was like "you already owed me a converter". After two weeks and tons of calls I went and picked it up. I brought with me any part, fluid, or product from them I bought and had receipt for for return (had an account with the parts dept), and reminded them that I had bought 13 vehicles there and ten from their gm dealer. My family and my wifes family we figured buy 8 vehicles per year from them. Screw em. They called me two years later to ask why i hadnt bought a new duramax ir car lately. I told them what happened. The owner called me and I said I would buy a new vehicle if they fired the service manager that ***ked me over. They canned him and I went in the next week to buy a vehicle. Shady. Shady shady.
