Is it time for injectors?

BigBlue · Sep 23, 2014

Recently installed a Barder Stage 2 turbo on my 05 last week. Thought I was losing my mind fighting a y-pipe connection and finally gave up and took it to RCD for them to take a look. Turns out the reason it had been so hot, laggy, and smokey is because the stock injectors aren't spooling the turbo very well. Just cruising anywhere from 60-85mph, my EGTs range from 900-1100*. Currently running tunes from Innovative, which were written for this turbo. My question is, do I just need my tunes tweaked, or is it time to be looking at some 175/75 sticks?

KCTurbos · Sep 23, 2014

Bad injectors can cause the truck to run a little hot... but 90% of customers that I know that jump from small nozzle injectors up to bigger nozzle injectors end up with higher cruising egts.

Did they say anything was wrong with the injectors? Or just that they don't have enough fuel to spool the turbo? Stock injectors should have plenty of fuel for a stage 2 turbo.

If you have stock gearing then I would attribute some of the higher egts to the big tires, lift, stock gears and slightly larger turbo... going to bigger injectors usually makes that issue worse.

BigBlue · Sep 23, 2014

They just told me that I needed bigger injectors. It didn't seem to explain much to me other than the issue I have spooling. I feel like if injector size was the issue, it probably wouldn't be smoking like a freight train. If I'm not careful when I accelerate onto the freeway, it gets embarrassing pretty quickly. I do have the stock 3.73s, but I never had an EGT issue until I installed the stage 2.

KCTurbos · Sep 23, 2014

Weird... something does not sound right. There are lots of guys running the stage 2 and stock injectors with no issues... if it is smoking like a fright train then you are getting plenty of fuel. Maybe too much fuel??? Cracked nozzle?

The stage 2 turbo is going to run less efficiently than a stock turbo at low rpms. The stage 2 wont really start to shine until you get above 2000. But it should run good enough that you should not have a big freight train behind you. I would bet something is wrong... Maybe bad injectors, boost leak, exhaust leak, bad sensor, etc...

BigBlue · Sep 23, 2014

That's what I've thought this whole time. I'm just getting frustrated at this point. They said everything was as it should be, but it just doesn't explain the issues. Maybe I'll email Innovative and see if they could tweak my tunes, maybe pull some fuel. It's getting to be a pressing issue now, with harvest coming in the next week or so, I've gotta be able to hook this thing to a trailer. As it runs now, I'm deathly afraid to see what happens to my EGTs actually pulling something.

dsberman94 · Sep 23, 2014

What's your cruising RPMs? If you're under 2000 the turbo won't light, like the man above said. I can imagine on 37s that the rpms might be a little low. Not sure on the 5r though. Just an idea to get a couple more variable out for people to read and help troubleshoot.

Josh@DirtyDiesels · Sep 23, 2014

dsberman94 said:
What's your cruising RPMs? If you're under 2000 the turbo won't light, like the man above said. I can imagine on 37s that the rpms might be a little low. Not sure on the 5r though. Just an idea to get a couple more variable out for people to read and help troubleshoot.

just stop

Fox hunt · Sep 23, 2014

Gotta be your 37s. I previously have slightly smaller than stock tires and cruised around 700 with my stage 2. Added my Toyo a/t which is technically a 34.5in but my egts went up to about 800 running IDP tunes as well. Add 2 more inches and more weight I can only imagine the increased load with stock gears

BigBlue · Sep 23, 2014

Just seems strange that this thing would run that hot with just a turbo change. A jump of 200* just seems insane to me. I guess I don't really know much about the gearing side of things though. What gears would be ideal? I'd say 80% of my driving is highway, with a little driving in town and some towing. 4:10s?

BigBlue · Sep 23, 2014

How do you datalog with the livewire TS? Wondering if maybe I could log some driving and post it here to get a little more info.

TheReelMuhcoy · Sep 23, 2014

not sure if the LiveWire works the same as the SF3 units, but if so... You can plug your laptop into the USB port on the SCT device and use their software called LiveLink, select the PID's you want to monitor and hit "Start data log" and when you hit stop you can save the data log file. There are some video tutorials on YouTube.

BigBlue · Sep 23, 2014

Okay. I'll give that a try tomorrow

dsberman94 · Sep 23, 2014

Try this.

Or just record video on your phone.

BigBlue · Sep 24, 2014

https://vimeo.com/107006876
Just a quick pull. Getting about 25psi boost, EGTs started around 900 as soon as the truck finally took off, then got up to around 1100. EGTs seem to wanna hang around that range and only get to 1250 and set my alarm off around 95 mph and up WOT. Tomorrow I'll look at some more parameters, maybe try datalogging to gather more info.

Six_Sloww · Sep 24, 2014

35's and 3.73's made my stock turbo feel laggy. I doubt it's a tuning issue, could be an injector issue and if you use your truck to tow a lot 4.30 gears would be a good investment.

Truck looks like it's running good in the above video.

BigBlue · Sep 24, 2014

Right. It seems to run fine, just seems hot and a little off. How could an injector issue just pop up, with simply changing the turbo? EGTs were fine before I put this on the truck.

Breaking Habits · Sep 24, 2014

My 05 was a laggy pig with 37's on 3.73, and i mean an absolute PIG

6 leakers love to be turned hard.

Did Levi say the truck was holding ICP well and what not? A big VGT on stock injectors is a pig on a stock height/geared truck.

Sometimes they just need a little heat to get the motor cookin

KCTurbos · Sep 24, 2014

Jared @ River City Diesel said:
6 leakers love to be turned hard.

Sometimes they just need a little heat to get the motor cookin

^^^^ There is a lot of truth in those statements... the two things that spool a turbo are heat and flow... you either have to get more flow through the rpms and/or get more heat. As the turbos get bigger it takes more heat and flow to get them spinning.

Big Turbo + Stock Gears + Big Tires = hot smokey mess

golfer · Sep 24, 2014

have Eric raise allllll of your shift points...and move your downshifts UP (so it'll downshift with less pedal input)...have him do the same in the converter maps.

adding fuel/injectors is going to amplify your issue UNLESS you get your shifting dialed in..you need to get gears...OR have your shift strategies match your ***ked tire/gear combination.

(assuming there isn't an issue with the turbo/boost leak/pre turbo exh leak, etc)

Did Eric@Innovative KNOW YOU HAD STOCK GEARS and 37" tires???

huge huge difference in how the trans should be controlled.

BigBlue · Sep 24, 2014

Jared @ River City Diesel said:
My 05 was a laggy pig with 37's on 3.73, and i mean an absolute PIG

6 leakers love to be turned hard.

Did Levi say the truck was holding ICP well and what not? A big VGT on stock injectors is a pig on a stock height/geared truck.

Sometimes they just need a little heat to get the motor cookin

He didn't really mention much about ICP or anything technical. He just told me that I needed bigger injectors to get it spooling, and that there was no y-pipe leak, which is why I originally took it in. Thought I was leaking because of the lag, heat, and slight whoosh noise I heard. They took it out and drove it, then told me what they thought. As far as my tuning, yes, on the website I filled out the info, including info on tire size, turbo dimensions, etc.