KC Stage 2 vs Stage 3
- Thread starter 6.0 Tech
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So, got to the track tonite, and actually ran slower than i did with the stage 2. The best run i pulled out was 12.78 at 105.64. This was on xtreme x, ficm tune set to performance, and water meth on. It wasnt a real good night, seemed like there was an oil down every third or fourth pass. First run was 12.89, second 13.20, an final wa the 12'78. I als noticed while building boost i was having an issue which may have been input sensor related, which could also cause the slower time and mph. I didnt have my computer, so i will see about diagnosing it at sme point here quick.
I guess the butt dyno lied, but it definitely felt faster on the street. Hooking to the trailer tomorrow, so should have an update.
Also, watching a video of the launch to about 300ft, all the smoke from the 190/30s is gone once the rpms build back from the launch. This thing runs clean as hell down the track.
I guess the butt dyno lied, but it definitely felt faster on the street. Hooking to the trailer tomorrow, so should have an update.
Also, watching a video of the launch to about 300ft, all the smoke from the 190/30s is gone once the rpms build back from the launch. This thing runs clean as hell down the track.
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Hey 6.0 tech. Send me an email
[email protected]
I just towed about 10-12k up the rim yesterday. We are camping up off your road.
I am also running the stage 3 and it towed great... But I had to get a special tune written because the turbo likes the higher rpms.
Have you adjusted your tunes for the stage 3 yet?
[email protected]
I just towed about 10-12k up the rim yesterday. We are camping up off your road.
I am also running the stage 3 and it towed great... But I had to get a special tune written because the turbo likes the higher rpms.
Have you adjusted your tunes for the stage 3 yet?
Hey charlie, these tunes are still for the stage 2, as no one likes to change a ton of stuff when trying to do comparisons.
I towed about 300 miles today with the 3, and i must say it does tow pretty well, as long as the rpms are up above 2200. Where the stage 2 is easy to fall under when not paying attention, the 3 takes a ton more concentration. I found myself having to pay attention even in tow/haul, as i fell nder once or twice when i didnt get the pedal mashed to force a downshift. Temps were around 1100-1200 on flat and mild hills. I went thru some mountains where all the grades seem to be 2-5 miles at no less than 6%, it would get up to 1300 with the motor singing at about 3500rpm trying to keep speed. If it upshifted, temps would skyrocket, and i would slow down.
I did not pass a set of scales, so i didnt weigh it, but im gonna assume 13-14k, as it was unloaded, and i wasnt gonna put over a hundred gallons of water and the bikes in it just to drive around.
And for whatever its worth i got about 8.5 mpg towing with it.
With the temps being so high on flat ground, and therefore not having a ton of leeway for issues, i dont know if this is the greatest turbo for towing heavy regularly. If i had bigger injectors, it may have towed better, but it also could have been hotter, i cant really say. There is no smoke on this tune, as it is doubling as an emissions tune, but with better fuel flow, and ability to drive the turbo harder, it may cool things down with bigger injectors. This tune was only pulling a max of 25 or so psi boost, cruising at 8-15 depending on what was going on, but egts were typically in the 1100-1200 degree range cruising.
I towed about 300 miles today with the 3, and i must say it does tow pretty well, as long as the rpms are up above 2200. Where the stage 2 is easy to fall under when not paying attention, the 3 takes a ton more concentration. I found myself having to pay attention even in tow/haul, as i fell nder once or twice when i didnt get the pedal mashed to force a downshift. Temps were around 1100-1200 on flat and mild hills. I went thru some mountains where all the grades seem to be 2-5 miles at no less than 6%, it would get up to 1300 with the motor singing at about 3500rpm trying to keep speed. If it upshifted, temps would skyrocket, and i would slow down.
I did not pass a set of scales, so i didnt weigh it, but im gonna assume 13-14k, as it was unloaded, and i wasnt gonna put over a hundred gallons of water and the bikes in it just to drive around.
And for whatever its worth i got about 8.5 mpg towing with it.
With the temps being so high on flat ground, and therefore not having a ton of leeway for issues, i dont know if this is the greatest turbo for towing heavy regularly. If i had bigger injectors, it may have towed better, but it also could have been hotter, i cant really say. There is no smoke on this tune, as it is doubling as an emissions tune, but with better fuel flow, and ability to drive the turbo harder, it may cool things down with bigger injectors. This tune was only pulling a max of 25 or so psi boost, cruising at 8-15 depending on what was going on, but egts were typically in the 1100-1200 degree range cruising.
Downey
New member
11-1200 is way to high for me cruising so it looks like a stage 2 is going to be big enough for me.
this is great info glad you have shared it with us.
this is great info glad you have shared it with us.
powerstrokecrzy
New member
So why so much difference between you and Charlie? 6.0 tech, what's your engine mods? Air flow, cam, etc
Charlie has more efficient flow which helps but his tuning is prob the biggest role. Plus driving style (I don't think he uses overdrive). When I was towing I didn't like spinning the motor at 2300-2500 all day. When I had a stage 3 I couldn't let it drop below 2100-2200 rpm towing or it would lug under the turbo.
The stage 2 when I went down I ran a little slower in the 1/4 but it matched my driving style and towing style much better. I eventually worked my way down to his 1.5 now because I have a 23-25k # gcw when towing and want to cruise in overdrive @ 1900-2100 rpm I'm also lifted on 35's which doesn't help.
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Stock heads, stock cam, stock intake manifold, stock hpop, stock intercooler and tubes, stock elbow. Has a volant intake, which i know aint the greatest, but was on the truck when i bought it, 190/30 holders injectors, water/meth i use sparingly as it uses the washer reservoir and goes out pretty quick if its on all the time. Truck also has a 2-2.5 in front leveling kit and is on 35s.
Im pretty sure charlie has a stage 2 cam and a ported intake if i remember right from seeing it torn apart at the shop. It may also have something to do with his injectors being bigger and able to run the turbo harder or have more efficient injection events.
The turbo does drive really nice with the trailer, but the temps are too high for my liking.
powerstrokecrzy
New member
Ok, gotcha
He does have a ported intake. I thought he also had 30%nozzles, although 205s i think.
One of the worst things i ever did for towing was 35"tires. When i put the 1.5" level kit on and went to 35s pulling the same load was noticeably more difficult.
With a more specific tune for that S3 and higher flowing intake like the no limit I'd bet you see a decent improvement.
Really enjoying seeing yalls results, even as different as they are. Charlie has me talked into an S3.
Every truck is different as well, and i in no way am complaining bout the turbo. I was happy with the way it drove, and this kind of started as a "hey try towing with this and see what happens". I deal a lot with diesels and more out here, and they have a really good relationship with charlie, and after i was talking to them about how good the stage 2 towed, they told me to try this. At one point it seemed as if everyone was saying it was a light towing only type turbo and i was really surprised by how good it did. If i was looking at making a ton of power while towing occasionally, i wouldnt hesitate to get it. As it is, i try to tow at least once a month to spend time with my boy, some of which does take some of these massive hills. In doing that so often, i dont want to step up injector size to compensate, as i feel it may hinder overall towing, and/or make it too smokey to run throgh emissions. I think i am going to get myself a new race tune written for the stage 3 and see how it does on the track and decide if i am going to keep both the 2 and 3 and swap when im going to tow. :naughty::ford:
powerstrokecrzy
New member
Sounds like the only logical choice!!
I just towed over the weekend with my truck. I went and camped up on the Rim near young road if anyone knows the area. It is up about 7500ft in elevation. I was pulling about 12,000lbs. Fully loaded 28ft toy hauler, carrying gear for other trucks that were full, and a truck bed full of fire wood.
Truck is a 2003 ccsb 4x4 with 205/30, KC68 stage 3, SPD race tune, with econo PHP ficm tune to pull back fuel. I had OD turned off when in tow/haul mode to help control my rpms.
Flat ground I saw about 800-1000egts
I could easily maintain 65-70mph going up even the steepest grades. Egts were about 1000-1250. Truck never even got close to being maxed out. I was usually only at about 40% load and throttle position... Truck always had plenty of power left over... but egts would go up above 1250 if I used it. I had to keep rpms above 2400 when pulling any sort of grade or my egts would start creeping up.
This is what I usually saw going up the steepest grades.
egts 1100-1250
boost - 20-25psi
ebp - 20-25psi
engine load - 40-45%
throttle position - 40-45%
coolant temp - 220
oil temp - 206
Not bad for a 68mm turbo and 205cc injectors IMO... while running a 550-600hp tune.
On the way back I was a lot lighter after dumping all the firewood/water. I raced a buddy with a stock 6.0 running "tow tune" and he was pretty embarrassed when I pulled on him. He said it was because he spun his tires.
PLEASE NOTE: I do not recommend towing on a race tune... I just wanted to try it and see what happened.
Truck is a 2003 ccsb 4x4 with 205/30, KC68 stage 3, SPD race tune, with econo PHP ficm tune to pull back fuel. I had OD turned off when in tow/haul mode to help control my rpms.
Flat ground I saw about 800-1000egts
I could easily maintain 65-70mph going up even the steepest grades. Egts were about 1000-1250. Truck never even got close to being maxed out. I was usually only at about 40% load and throttle position... Truck always had plenty of power left over... but egts would go up above 1250 if I used it. I had to keep rpms above 2400 when pulling any sort of grade or my egts would start creeping up.
This is what I usually saw going up the steepest grades.
egts 1100-1250
boost - 20-25psi
ebp - 20-25psi
engine load - 40-45%
throttle position - 40-45%
coolant temp - 220
oil temp - 206
Not bad for a 68mm turbo and 205cc injectors IMO... while running a 550-600hp tune.
On the way back I was a lot lighter after dumping all the firewood/water. I raced a buddy with a stock 6.0 running "tow tune" and he was pretty embarrassed when I pulled on him. He said it was because he spun his tires.
PLEASE NOTE: I do not recommend towing on a race tune... I just wanted to try it and see what happened.
powerstrokecrzy
New member
That's pretty awesome numbers on a race tune
Thats awesome to hear charlie! Chris and corey ought to be sending you my trucks info, so i can give the tsd tunes a shot.
I wonder if idp maybe pulled too much out of the tow tune trying to make it double as an emissions tune? It seems to lack power, but i do go from a haul ass street tune to a tow tune, so just figured its the big change that i was feeling.
I wonder if idp maybe pulled too much out of the tow tune trying to make it double as an emissions tune? It seems to lack power, but i do go from a haul ass street tune to a tow tune, so just figured its the big change that i was feeling.
I took the truck to th track last night, and it ran terrible. However, did find that my icp was dropping to zero, but the truck was still running. With charlies help, as well as corey from diesels and more, we found the icp sensor took a chit. This may have been happening for a while now, but i think it was failing the other way, as my gauge would peg when it had no power, and i was more or less thinking th icp wa trying to compensate for another input failing, like an ebp or something. The failing icp also somewhat explains my lack of power and excessive temps when towing, so we will see.if it fixes that as well. I got that changed out, but it will probably take another week or two to get some more track and/or towing times.
I will say that i got a new xtreme x tune writen for the stage 3 turbo, and butt dyno says its a hell of a lot faster. I had one run back up at 106mph, but it seemed to fall off on the start and hiccup whike going down. This new tune about wraps my 35psi boost gauge back around to 0, so a new gauge is in the near future.
I also ordered the tsd suoer panty dropper, and a tsd tow tune from charlie to try out. I drove the super panty dropper home from the shop today, and it runs really good. It seems to start pulling earlier in the rpm than the idp tunes, not as hard as the idp tunes, but it seems like i pulls longer and smoother. So far the trans has been spot on. Th tsd tunes are definitely less violent than the idp tunes, i will be putting miles on both tsd tunes and see how they do. I rode in charlie truck thursday night, and was very impressed. His pulls like a freight train, and has nearly 0 smok output, even when he first gets on it.
Sorry for the long post
I will say that i got a new xtreme x tune writen for the stage 3 turbo, and butt dyno says its a hell of a lot faster. I had one run back up at 106mph, but it seemed to fall off on the start and hiccup whike going down. This new tune about wraps my 35psi boost gauge back around to 0, so a new gauge is in the near future.
I also ordered the tsd suoer panty dropper, and a tsd tow tune from charlie to try out. I drove the super panty dropper home from the shop today, and it runs really good. It seems to start pulling earlier in the rpm than the idp tunes, not as hard as the idp tunes, but it seems like i pulls longer and smoother. So far the trans has been spot on. Th tsd tunes are definitely less violent than the idp tunes, i will be putting miles on both tsd tunes and see how they do. I rode in charlie truck thursday night, and was very impressed. His pulls like a freight train, and has nearly 0 smok output, even when he first gets on it.
Sorry for the long post
I camp at young road aswell. Those are some nasty hills!!! Even worse when it's 115degrees in the valley!!!
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Dieselmore
New member
Can't wait to get back to the track now. Hopefully mine will be running next time so I can test her out
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