KC Turbos 6.4 turbo testing
- Thread starter KCTurbos
- Start date
Testing has been super slow... it is so hard to get any parts from any vendors. Our prototype parts have been pushed back in every category.
Sorry. I wish I had more. I will update as soon as we are able to get parts and build some new options to test on the dyno
Sorry. I wish I had more. I will update as soon as we are able to get parts and build some new options to test on the dyno
We have some Low Pressure turbo options live on the website finally!!!
https://kcturbos.com/collections/6-4-turbos/products/kc-stage-1-turbo-6-4-powerstroke-2008-2010
https://kcturbos.com/collections/6-...-low-pressure-turbo-6-4-powerstroke-2008-2010
Tuning has been slow on the High Pressure Turbo options... huge parts delays and not getting the HP results we were hoping for. In fact we are not seeing hardly any gains at all from any of the options out there. Seems upgrading the HP turbo does not do much with the stock horse shoe and stock cover. But we will post up data once we get some good results.
https://kcturbos.com/collections/6-4-turbos/products/kc-stage-1-turbo-6-4-powerstroke-2008-2010
https://kcturbos.com/collections/6-...-low-pressure-turbo-6-4-powerstroke-2008-2010
Tuning has been slow on the High Pressure Turbo options... huge parts delays and not getting the HP results we were hoping for. In fact we are not seeing hardly any gains at all from any of the options out there. Seems upgrading the HP turbo does not do much with the stock horse shoe and stock cover. But we will post up data once we get some good results.
Roccafellas
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Finally. Ordering. Thank you!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Charlie,
Do you have any direct comparisons between the stock LP and your drop in LP turbos. As in all that's changed was the turbo. All I can find is stock run with H&S then the drop ins run with custom tunes. Do you have any direct comparisons?
As for the HP turbo. I feel it is a choke point. You might not see much gains just going with a bigger comp wheel. It really needs a higher flowing turbine side. Have you tried a bigger exhaust wheel yet? Should really help with back pressure.
Thanks!
Do you have any direct comparisons between the stock LP and your drop in LP turbos. As in all that's changed was the turbo. All I can find is stock run with H&S then the drop ins run with custom tunes. Do you have any direct comparisons?
As for the HP turbo. I feel it is a choke point. You might not see much gains just going with a bigger comp wheel. It really needs a higher flowing turbine side. Have you tried a bigger exhaust wheel yet? Should really help with back pressure.
Thanks!
Alright, it has been a while since we have posted results. We had some High Pressure Fuel issues that we had to work through, parts delays, and honestly not wanting to post data until we were SURE of what we were seeing. So we tested, retested, and verified the data we were seeing.
This is probably not a post that many are going to be happy about, but I am not here just to throw random parts in a turbo and sell them like you see so many other companies do. If I was that kind of guy I would have made some 6.4 turbos 3 years ago that looked/sounded cool and made sure they were bigger than every other option on the market. Instead we spent the last 3 years testing, learning, developing new parts, and testing again.
If you are not a data person and don’t want to read everything then here is the brief summary… In the High Pressure Turbo anything bigger than a 59mm 7x7 or 6x6 comp wheel and stock turbine wheel is a step BACKWARDS in performance if you still have a “stock frame” Low Pressure turbo. (Results are different if you put a bigger precision or borg in place of your LP Turbo).
What??? How is that possible? Everyone has always said that all the secrets to making big power are in the HP turbo. Well I am not sure any of them spent 3 years actually testing this stuff.
I am going to try and break this down as best I can to display the info. We have hundreds of dyno runs with so many different combos, but I will post up the data that will help best to comprehends the trends we are seeing. We tested 7x7, 6x6, 11 blade, and 10 blade wheels. Some taller, some shorter, larger exdcuder and normal exducer size. We also tested lots of turbine wheel sizes and styles. We even ran a larger compressor cover like the old Elite max power turbos with the 4” inlet. We even ran with and without gates. It is just too much data and will make this very confusing if we try to post all the data at the same time… so this is the data to take away.
We kept the LP turbo the same. This is the best performing LP turbo we have tested so far out of any drop in turbo out there. New KC s2 75mm with larger turbine wheel.
Here are some of the graphs that show the data the best. (we have probably 100 test graphs and that is too many to understand if you overlay all of them).
All With stock/modified covers
Green - 976hp - 100% stock HP
Brown - 1026hp - Typical 7x7 59mm compressor with stock turbine wheel.
Red - 1006hp – Larger 59mm compressor with stock turbine wheel
Yellow - 995hp – Larger 59mm compressor with larger turbine wheel
Blue - 979hp - Larger 61mm compressor with larger turbine wheel
Not on the graph above but good to Note
992hp 66mm Larger ported cover, 4” inlet, larger turbine wheel
985hp 68mm Larger ported cover, 4” inlet, larger turbine wheel
So going bigger than a 59mm 7x7 compressor wheel with stock turbine did not increase power... it actually hurt HP.
Here is what we know and have learned and why this is happening. The LP turbo is actually the restriction... not the HP turbo. The problem is the turbine side of the LP turbo is restricting into the HP turbo. Turbos don't care about PSI, they only care about pressure ratios. This is pressure in vs pressure out. As the pressure ratio drops you will flow less air through the turbine housing and not drive the turbo as hard.
Looking at the data.
EBP before HP turbo 90psi
EBP between HP and LP turbo 60psi
EBP after LP turbo - 15psi (atmospheric pressure)
So HP turbo is being driven at only being driven 1.5 pressure ratio
The LP turbo is being driven at a 4.0 pressure ratio
That is too high of a pressure ratio for the LP turbo and not high enough for the HP turbo. The LP turbo is being driven TOO HARD and can't keep up on the turbine side. This is causing a backup in between the two turbos. This results in the HP turbo NOT BEING DRIVEN HARD ENOUGH. So increasing the size of the HP turbo actually hurts because you are not driving it very hard so making it bigger loses efficiency in the lower end of the compressor maps and turbine maps. The 59mm 7x7 with stock turbine is the most we can squeeze out of it.
The changes we have seen so far that great improved performance over everything else on the market was with the addition of the larger turbine wheel on the LP turbo, a more efficient compressor wheel on the LP turbo, and larger 4" ported inlet to increase efficiency and flow through the LP turbo.
Adding gates helped to bring down EBP, but did not increase power. Gates are actually blowing off excess pressure which could be converted into horsepower if done properly.
We feel the next step in performance would be a larger a/r turbine housing on the LP turbo. At least 20%. Also it might be nice to put a wastegate port on the LP turbine housing to make it easier to gate the setup. This is in development but will take at least 1 year before we have a final design and testing starting.
After we increase flow through the LP turbine housing... I believe the larger HP turbos will work more effectively and make a bigger difference.
Also in case you wanted to see them. Here are our results from the our initial LP turbo testing.
Light green - 628hp - 73mm with stock cover STOCK TURBINE
Red - 640hp - 71mm flank mill with upgraded cover STOCK TURBINE
Light blue - 655hp - 71mm point mill wheel with upgraded cover STOCK TURBINE
Orange - 655hp - 75mm point mill wheel STOCK TURBINE
Dark Blue - 667hp - our 75mm point mill wheel, upgraded cover, LARGER TURBINE WHEEL (it also had lower EBP and more boost over the stock turbine wheel)
After that we just added bigger injectors
Dark Green - 708hp - DUAL hpfp to flow more fuel
Brown - 976hp - Dual hpfp and 100% injectors
This is probably not a post that many are going to be happy about, but I am not here just to throw random parts in a turbo and sell them like you see so many other companies do. If I was that kind of guy I would have made some 6.4 turbos 3 years ago that looked/sounded cool and made sure they were bigger than every other option on the market. Instead we spent the last 3 years testing, learning, developing new parts, and testing again.
If you are not a data person and don’t want to read everything then here is the brief summary… In the High Pressure Turbo anything bigger than a 59mm 7x7 or 6x6 comp wheel and stock turbine wheel is a step BACKWARDS in performance if you still have a “stock frame” Low Pressure turbo. (Results are different if you put a bigger precision or borg in place of your LP Turbo).
What??? How is that possible? Everyone has always said that all the secrets to making big power are in the HP turbo. Well I am not sure any of them spent 3 years actually testing this stuff.
I am going to try and break this down as best I can to display the info. We have hundreds of dyno runs with so many different combos, but I will post up the data that will help best to comprehends the trends we are seeing. We tested 7x7, 6x6, 11 blade, and 10 blade wheels. Some taller, some shorter, larger exdcuder and normal exducer size. We also tested lots of turbine wheel sizes and styles. We even ran a larger compressor cover like the old Elite max power turbos with the 4” inlet. We even ran with and without gates. It is just too much data and will make this very confusing if we try to post all the data at the same time… so this is the data to take away.
We kept the LP turbo the same. This is the best performing LP turbo we have tested so far out of any drop in turbo out there. New KC s2 75mm with larger turbine wheel.
Here are some of the graphs that show the data the best. (we have probably 100 test graphs and that is too many to understand if you overlay all of them).
All With stock/modified covers
Green - 976hp - 100% stock HP
Brown - 1026hp - Typical 7x7 59mm compressor with stock turbine wheel.
Red - 1006hp – Larger 59mm compressor with stock turbine wheel
Yellow - 995hp – Larger 59mm compressor with larger turbine wheel
Blue - 979hp - Larger 61mm compressor with larger turbine wheel
Not on the graph above but good to Note
992hp 66mm Larger ported cover, 4” inlet, larger turbine wheel
985hp 68mm Larger ported cover, 4” inlet, larger turbine wheel
So going bigger than a 59mm 7x7 compressor wheel with stock turbine did not increase power... it actually hurt HP.
Here is what we know and have learned and why this is happening. The LP turbo is actually the restriction... not the HP turbo. The problem is the turbine side of the LP turbo is restricting into the HP turbo. Turbos don't care about PSI, they only care about pressure ratios. This is pressure in vs pressure out. As the pressure ratio drops you will flow less air through the turbine housing and not drive the turbo as hard.
Looking at the data.
EBP before HP turbo 90psi
EBP between HP and LP turbo 60psi
EBP after LP turbo - 15psi (atmospheric pressure)
So HP turbo is being driven at only being driven 1.5 pressure ratio
The LP turbo is being driven at a 4.0 pressure ratio
That is too high of a pressure ratio for the LP turbo and not high enough for the HP turbo. The LP turbo is being driven TOO HARD and can't keep up on the turbine side. This is causing a backup in between the two turbos. This results in the HP turbo NOT BEING DRIVEN HARD ENOUGH. So increasing the size of the HP turbo actually hurts because you are not driving it very hard so making it bigger loses efficiency in the lower end of the compressor maps and turbine maps. The 59mm 7x7 with stock turbine is the most we can squeeze out of it.
The changes we have seen so far that great improved performance over everything else on the market was with the addition of the larger turbine wheel on the LP turbo, a more efficient compressor wheel on the LP turbo, and larger 4" ported inlet to increase efficiency and flow through the LP turbo.
Adding gates helped to bring down EBP, but did not increase power. Gates are actually blowing off excess pressure which could be converted into horsepower if done properly.
We feel the next step in performance would be a larger a/r turbine housing on the LP turbo. At least 20%. Also it might be nice to put a wastegate port on the LP turbine housing to make it easier to gate the setup. This is in development but will take at least 1 year before we have a final design and testing starting.
After we increase flow through the LP turbine housing... I believe the larger HP turbos will work more effectively and make a bigger difference.
Also in case you wanted to see them. Here are our results from the our initial LP turbo testing.
Light green - 628hp - 73mm with stock cover STOCK TURBINE
Red - 640hp - 71mm flank mill with upgraded cover STOCK TURBINE
Light blue - 655hp - 71mm point mill wheel with upgraded cover STOCK TURBINE
Orange - 655hp - 75mm point mill wheel STOCK TURBINE
Dark Blue - 667hp - our 75mm point mill wheel, upgraded cover, LARGER TURBINE WHEEL (it also had lower EBP and more boost over the stock turbine wheel)
After that we just added bigger injectors
Dark Green - 708hp - DUAL hpfp to flow more fuel
Brown - 976hp - Dual hpfp and 100% injectors
powerstrokeboss
Member
Very interesting
Thank you
Thank you
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
You have put a lot of time in testing. When the time comes for turbos on the old 6.4 I know where I will be going.
Thanks for the update. To be honest this thread is why I started frequenting PSA again.
Thanks for the update. To be honest this thread is why I started frequenting PSA again.
makaveli200369
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Wow you put a lot of time, effort anad R&D into this! It sounds like 75mm compressor with the larger turbine is the way to go!
Wayne
Active member
Now that this system is on the market, I gotta ask about that exhaust on your test truck. I see a stock exhaust tip. Does that mean it's got that pile of crap bottle neck venturi in it still? That could be a game changer on data, as well as a major power bump like when I was doing 6.4 turbo testing at Elite, and several tests in, with the old AFE intake, I discovered that the intake tube minimum diameter was smaller than the compressor inducer. Switching to a bigger inlet was a huge power jump, and we had to start over with the data. Seeing what you've done here though, I would just expect the gain scale to be larger, making your gains more respectable.
J98
Active member
What's banks marketing strategy on the DPF back system? 199% better then stock or other competitors? 3 mpg increase?
Sorry, just have to laugh when I see their marketing. A large majority of their bolt ons will not be realized on a stock truck.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
I like mine to look factory. Under the hood, anything goes.
Wayne
Active member
I can’t remember the exact numbers, but on the newer stuff, the dog can flow decent up to somewhere around 800 Hp. I also know that a clean dpf is less restrictive than the Venturi. PPEI saw several horsepower increase off of just the dpf back exhaust
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
Well hurry up!! I want a report on how you like them.
So far I like it, I prefer the sound of my precisions but the drivability of the vgt outweighs that. I haven't tied my wastegate in yet so I have it pinned shut. Once I get that taken care of I will do some wot pulls and let them eat.
Powerstroke Cowboy
Well-known member
It will be interesting to see how well they clean the fuel up.
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