Let's do some bench racing

[NyCowboy87]

Ok thank you for clearing that up for me.


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[Hotrodtractor]

Jason I remember years ago you posted a "what it would take to make a 7.3 competitive" thread. It may have even been on PSN, I cant remember, but I would sure like to read that again, and others would as well I'm sure. In the thread you talked about the oil capacity and PSI it would take to inject a "competitive" amount of fuel. Any chance you have this thread saved?

Quotes from the first post of three threads that I think you reference - pictures are lost forever thanks to webshots.....

In the end I don’t care if you agree with me or not – these are the basic underlying theories that make my truck run. None of these are real numbers of anything on my truck, and the example is somewhat extreme to show the issues of the systems, but not too extreme that it is unrealistic. At the rate that these competition trucks are being converted to Cummins or 7.3 p-pumped conversions there aren’t many of us that are up to the challenge left. Personally I am not a brand loyal kind of guy, I do it for the challenge, but eventually with everyone jumping ship, the challenge will probably get old. I hope that this thread in light of some of the more recent developments will get some guys thinking about the issues ahead of them if they want to pursue a similar path to making a 7.3 run with the competition. Also I would like to get people to start thinking about how a change in one part of the SYSTEM effects the rest of the system. This is nothing more than a thought invoking thread.

Lets suppose that I want to go out sled pulling with my 3.0 charger p-pumped Cummins buddies. The PSD is obviously the long shot in that competition so we want to look at it and tweak anything we can just to make it competitive. Those 5.9 p-pumped motors are spinning 6K RPMs so lets make the PSD do that.

Poof – I borrowed Lott’s wand and wizard hat and there is nothing stopping the PSD from spinning 6K RPMs from a controls standpoint. Program it, add a second IDM, whatever doesn’t matter.

There are 400cc injectors in the truck. We work some magic on them too so they can empty all their fuel in 48 degrees of crank shaft rotation at 6K RPMs, just like a p-pump is capable of. The injectors empty in 1.33 ms of actual injection, add in a token 0.5ms of injector delay and your at 1.8ms of called for PW.

To empty a 400cc hybrid inject in 48 degrees of crankshaft rotation at 6000 RPMs requires 5 times that volume in oil at BARE minimum. In keeping with the BARE minimum theme that’s 18.75cc/rev of the HPOP assuming its being driven by the factory gear. That is 23.8 GPM of engine oil just for the injection system. At 3200 psi that is 44.4HP just to drive the damn HPOP. In order to have 23.8 GPM of engine oil going through the injection system, we will need at least that PLUS what ever number we feel that we need to keep our bearings and piston cooling jets operational. Lets just call it 34 GPM as an arbitrary number. Raise your hand if you think there is a replacement LPOP that goes in the factory location that will output that kind of flow.

Lets take a look at 400cc B-codes for arguments sake. That is afterall the injector of choice by many performance enthusiasts. That take 6 times the amount of oil as fuel flow - 22.5 cc/rev of the pump to be exact. BARE minumum. At 6000 RPMs thats 28.5 gallons per minute of oil just to run the injectors, at BARE minimum. At 3200psi of HPO thats over 50HP just to drive the the damn HPO pump!

400cc injectors being emptied at 6K RPMs require over 150GPH of diesel fuel just to keep up. Nothing being returned to the tank.

That takes care of a broad overview of the fuel injection system – I avoided two key things the magic to make the injectors do what I am asking, and the magic need to control them. Lets take a look at the injectors a little bit closer – only as a broad overview –

There have been many threads talk about how to get the fuel out of the injectors, bigger tips, SHO mods, cut pistons, poppet lift, etc…. The oil needs to go in with the least amount of pressure drops possible, and go out quickly. The fuel needs to go in quickly, and go out with the least amount of pressure drops. Sounds nice and simple doesn’t it? I’m not going to go into ANY details about who is doing what, that is proprietary to each shop as far as I am concerned, but I will put one thought into eveyone’s mind, just for one little piece of this puzzle to be contemplated – Lets look at a poppet with stock lift – exactly like 99.9999% of people have. It opens and the oil flows past it. Well now its flowing enough oil at 3200PSI to empty a 400cc injector in 48 crank angle degrees at 6000 RPMs, and it’s a hybrid. What if I were to suggest that there is 1500psi pressure drop across that poppet seat? Your intensifier piston is only seeing 1700psi of that 3200psi that you put in….. pretty damn f’d up eh? The entire injector is full of issues like this. Its amazing these things work as well as they do for what we are asking of them. That pressure drop for a b-code is over 2100 psi………

I’m going to refrain from the controls hardware and programming issues, but be aware that there are plenty. I do not yet know enough to say any more than what is being said in the many threads about IDM/PCM programming, communications, and limitations.

There it is guys. Just think about all that junk for a while. When your done thinking about all that, think about how that is only a glossy overview of all this BS thats involved with making this junk run with the rest of the crowd. I'm going to the shop......

Standard theory disclaimer here guys. It is just physics and is the basic principles that I operate under. Its more along the lines of this is how I build my truck and if you disagree it don’t matter…. The following information and graphs show concepts and will put you into a ballpark, not guaranteed results. There is no garantee that the computer will even work at the extreme end of the RPM band, but I think it is good for a good ways North of where we are...

I’m going to try and explain why we have been talking about fast injectors and what that means, implies, and what we hope to achieve by advancing this technology. And trust me this is EXACTLY how the rest of the mechanical world keeps advancing and stepping up its game. For all out max power that will ALWAYS remain that way. But for everyone that would like to drive their truck everyday or keep up with the common rail crowd this applies to your truck!

First lets take a look at some 238cc Hybrid injectors with 80% tips. Here is a 3d graph that I generated from flow data collected on a typical set of these injectors:

You can tell that the fuel quantity maxes out as ICP and PW maximize. Nothing particularly spectacular about that. But I then took this data and overlapped that with the FDCS capabilities of the 7.3L PSD. Then I removed some of the high fueling down low on a WOT run and used that information on fuel quantities to generate HP and Torque curve capabilities. This doesn’t take into account any other limitations other than fuel, and can be shifted around by tweaking parameters. Not here to argue the numbers, just show the concepts that the graphs represent.

Looks pretty much exactly like a “typical” hybrid dyno graph except it goes to 6K RPMs right? I ran it out to 6K RPMs to help illustrate our current fueling capabilities and further my point. Notice that the graph peaks at about 2800 RPMs? Pretty familiar huh? By the time you pull enough torque out down low to make your motor live, you will never empty an off the shelf 238cc injector. You can add more power capabilities in down low by adding in more PW below this, but this also ups the torque curve which one of the reasons we all need all these fancy billet rods and junk…..

Compare those HP and TQ curves with many dyno graphs of a PSD with hybrids and you should find them pretty close in concept and shape. Probably similar peak numbers in some instances, a little low for others a little high for the rest.

Now here is the 3d flow graph of a “FAST” 455cc injector:

Yep. That’s a lot more fuel in the same period of time compared to the 238cc hybrids with 80% tips. There is way more going on there than just a tip change – but that is a subject that I won’t discuss in detail.

Now – Take this information and run it through the same process I ran the hybrid data through….

HP and TQ curve:

NOW I’m not here claiming any HP numbers, but this is what the data says. I limited the torque to 1200ft-lbs to show something that might be possible to make live. Note that even doing these limitations the peak of the HP line happens roughly 1000 RPMs higher. The limitations to peak HP are occurring because we passed the point where the max quantity of fuel can be injected. Faster injectors have helped move the curves farther up the RPM band, but they are not fast enough to move the peak any farther up. As the technology continues we will be able to move that peak even farther up the RPM band.

What about the guy that doesn’t want all that fuel, and just wants a good driving truck? What does this mean for you?

Lets take those fast fuel mods and run them on a “standard” 238cc hybrid.

It maxes out the fuel quantities for a much larger portion of the 3d graph simply because there is no more quantity to be had. Lets take that and look at what a theoretical HP and TQ curve:

NOW that’s what I am talking about. That would make one nasty, drivable, and fairly competitive truck in some classes. Torque was held to a level where a “stock” bottom end would live, but that says nothing of balancing, valve train, engine clearances to run RPM, etc…

Verification of data….

Take at look at Nate’s dyno sheet:

Now he is running the injectors that the 455cc flow graph was generated from. While on the dyno he was only using about 1.5-1.6 ms of PW throughout the run based on OBDII data. (Charlie – yes I know… need to verify with a scope… I agree, but it hasn’t happened yet)

Here is the theoretical chart based of off 1.6ms of PW using the flow data from the injectors:

Not perfect, but close enough to say that the data works for peak HP. If I were to massage the torque curve differently then I could get closer there too, but its not worth it for what I would like to show. The truck was not really tuned in and was having some wastegate issues that are now resoved. (I think anyway... Nate would have to confirm that.....)

Take it for what its worth. The data is showing that we are making progress. And I think we have made a lot in recent times, but there is a lot yet to go. I have no idea what happens to the HP/cc ratio does when nitrous is added…. I assume that moves the value up substantially.

Discuss.

Disclaimer – I’m in the fields making hay and didn’t devote a lot of time to this…. I think all the numbers are correct but if you find a math error – well that happens – this is more about the concept than anything.

Ok guys – it seams as if there has been some confusion about injector oil consumption and I hope that the following series of posts will help shed some light on this. Starting out I’m going to go slow and keep it simple and build upon the concepts. All of the data starting out here will be best case scenario and in the real world is subjected to inefficiencies inherent in each of the subsystems

Lets start out by looking at a simple set of 238cc hybrid injectors with 80% tips. Here is a graph showing the fuel injection for these injectors based upon ICP and PW. As a standard disclaimer these injectors were flowed using a “Gen3” style gear pump coupled to an electric motor spinning at 1750RPMs???? – I think. This will become important later and will fill in more details.



Ok now comes the simple part – we know that it is a hybrid injector and that for every cc of fuel expelled the injector HAS to use 5 times that volume in oil. Picture the above graph with the volumes multiplied by 5.

Now using this data we have the actual oil consumption for the injectors – now lets take a closer look at pump used to produce these actual flow rates – remember I said these numbers were produced on an injector flow bench running the same basic gear pump that is used on the Gen3 system – that is 0.61 c.i. per pump revolution or for those metric gurus 9.99cc per revolution – since the pump is spinning at a known 1750 RPMs (I need to verify that…) we know its flowing 17482cc of oil per minute (or 4.71 gallons per minute). For arguments sake I want to convert this oil flow rate to something that we care about, say a standard 17* pump that displaces 7.2cc per revolution. Straight up we get to 2428 pump RPMs. Considering the pump on a PSD (single stocker lets not complicate things further….yet) turns at 85% of the crank speed we get an engine RPM of 2856 RPMs. If you take into account some inefficiency in the system, we will just round it to a nice clean 3100 engine RPMs to produce the same result as found on the bench. (RPMs get rounded up due to inefficiencies because of the reduced the cc/rev that the pump puts out).

Now here comes the rub – suppose you want to run that 3.5ms of PW at 2000 RPMs and 3000psi - you might not be able to do so…. How about at 3500 RPMs? – now that is still possible….. Let me elaborate a little….

We know that the 17* pump WILL work at 3100 RPMs because that is basically how these injectors were tested. At 3100 RPMs the 17* pump will produce 4.71 gallons per minute. At 3500 RPMs that 17* pump will be putting out 5.15 GPM (considering inefficiencies). That is more than enough to supply the injectors based on the flow sheet – in fact the duty cycle of the IPR will be lower to be able to achieve the required pressure than it was at the lower RPMs.

Lets look at 2000 RPMs – the 17* pump can only supply 2.94 GPM at that RPM! Now you ask – “But is that enough for these injectors?” Lets find out that answer. We know we want 3.5ms of PW and we want 3000psi – a quick lookup at the graphs and that determines that we want to inject 238cc of fuel (per 1000 shots for those that do not know). This means that we need 1190cc of oil per 1000 injection events –or- 1.19cc of oil for one event. This event takes place in 3.5ms. This gives us 1.19cc of oil in 3.5ms… that right there is a flow rate. There are 12 crankshaft degrees per millisecond at 2000 RPMs – or 42 degrees of crankshaft rotation – or 35.7 degrees of rotation of your 17* oil pump. So 1.19cc per 35.7 degrees of crankshaft rotation is 12cc per pump revolution! Guess what – BAM P1211! That pump will NEVER keep up at that pressure with tuning that calls for fuel like this. In fact at that RPM I would be surprised if that 17* pump keeps up calling for 1000psi with 3.5ms. (coincidentally that is 142cc of fuel at 2000 RPMs – which should be good for about 280-350 HP at 2000 RPMs…..)

Lets talk about the IPR for a moment. Everyone talk about how important it is, and talks about taking it out and cleaning it, etc… but few talk about how it actually works. Think about it like this – it is basically an electric solenoid that is being fed a signal from the computer. This signal is a series of high and low voltages that dictate the strength the magnetic field contained within the solenoid. By varying the strength of this field the IPR is regulating the amount of oil that can bleed off from the system. A strong field is trying to hold as much oil in the system as possible; a weaker field is trying to bleed off more oil through the IPR to help maintain a pressure. So when comparing injectors, HPOPs, tuning, etc… that is why everyone talks about the duty cycle of the IPR – that duty cycle is basically how strong the IPR is. So in essence if you swap nothing else but pumps – and your IPR duty cycle drops under similar conditions – then your new pump has a higher volume output than your old pump –OR- something about the pump/setup has less of a pressure drop.

OK so far we have looked at a WOT scenario and looked how many different variables effect the pressure (volume) of oil available to the injectors at any given time, engine RPM, IPR Duty Cycle, Commanded PW, Commanded ICP, etc… but unless you’re a competition rig – how does this effect you? Lets take a look at what goes on when you are hooked to a trailer pulling a grade. To save a little time I am going to borrow some work from Charles done in Smack Talk – some things have been changed to protect the innocent and it has been cleaned up a bit, but none the less it is still his scenario:

Originally Posted by Chillin View Post
For an example of work, take a scenario of an PSD pulling a trailer climbing a 6% mountain grade for 6 miles with a loaded trailer behind it as would be the case pulling Mont Eagle grade in Tn.

There is a specific amount of work involved with that task.

Lets say the GCVW is 20,000lbs. Now if we forgo the complications of friction, wind resistance and all that for the moment, we can figure the primary force acting on this truck and trailer which happens to be gravity.

A 6% grade is a 2.7* angle. From this we can figure the component of gravity that is acting on the vehicle attempting to pull it down the slope.

We would have 20,000lbs straight into the earth and a component of 942lbs headed down the slope.

So the force involved here is the 942lbs, or 4190 N (Newtons).


The distance is 6 miles, or 9504 M (Meters).


Knowing this we can calculate the work required to move this vehicle to the top of Mont Eagle.

Since Work is Force x Distance, it's as simple as 4190 N x 9504 M = 39,821,760 NM (Newton Meters, units of work).

So that's your work. That's literally what must be done. Any engine can do it, the only question is how long will it take. That's where power comes in.

For instance....

Lets say you managed 45mph up this pass in this truck. Traveling 6 miles at 45mph would take you 8 minutes from bottom to top. Now we have our Time value. The important one...

8 minutes is 480 seconds.

We know that Power = Work / Time, so it's as simple as 39,821,760 NM / 480 s = 82,962 Watts of power required to do that task in that time.

What is Watt you might ask? It's a unit of power, just like kilowatts (1000 watts) or Horsepower, or Joules per second, so on and so forth.

So how many Horsepower is 82,962 Watts? Well it's 112 Horsepower.

Now lets say – I don’t want to go 45mph up that hill…. I want to do 70mph up that hill!

The only thing that changes is the amount of time it takes to climb the hill – only 5.1 minutes to reach the summit or 308 seconds. That boils it down to 129291 watts or 174hp.

Now you might want to know where I am headed with all of this and how it applies to what injectors, HPOPs, tuning, etc….

Lets examine the situations just discussed – 112hp at 45mph and 174hp at 70mph. Looking at some gear ratios – lets just say it’s a 6 speed truck to eliminate any of the argument for the TC slippage, etc… it can also show that things like the P1211 code can be as much of a driving style and tuning as it is an actual problem. The truck also has 33” tires and 3.73 gears.

First the 45mph scenario – in OD this can be done at about 1300 RPM, In 5th gear you will see it about 1725rpm, in 4th gear you can see it 2225rpm, and not practically done in 3rd gear by a “stockish” truck running a set of hybrids and a turbo towing a trailer. For arguments sake I’m going to assume 2.2hp per cc of fuel injected. So to make 112hp we will need to inject 51cc of fuel. At 500psi ICP that’s about 2.75ms, at 750psi that is about 1.75ms, at 1000psi that is about 1.5ms, at 1250psi that is 1.4ms, at 1500psi that is 1.3ms at 2000psi its 1.2ms, at 2500psi its 1.1ms, at 3000psi its about 1ms.

For the most part the goal is to inject fuel at the highest pressure possible to get the best atomization possible – but this is also a balance of being able to produce the pressure, as well as inject the fuel in an appropriate time window for a controlled burn. That is an entire thread all by itself – maybe some other day…..

So now I have all these data points of pressures and PWs that can inject the fuel I need to do the task – and a handful of RPMs where I can meet my speed goal. So now what…. Well those RPMs dictate the flowrate of the pump in a volume per time – those PW numbers dictate the rate that oil is required to use the associated ICP – Basically what that means is if the oil flow requirement for the injection event of a certain PW is not met by the pump – then you can’t maintain the pressure that is called for and BAM – the dreaded P1211…

Lets look at these data points – given some inefficiencies in the pump, max possible IPR duty cycle, etc…. at 1300 RPMs we can not inject fuel any faster than about 1.5ms and maintain 1250psi, at 1725rpms we should be able to manage in the 1.2ms with about 2000psi, and can do pretty much anything we would like to do in this scenario at the 2225rpm mark. Asking for any more than about 2000psi at 1750rpms is just going to result in popping a code – at 1300rpms don’t think about any more than 1250psi or expect a nice yellow light on your dash.

The 70mph scenario yields about 2025rpms in OD, 2650rpms in 5th gear, and is not practical in 4th gear. To make the 174hp we will need to inject 79cc of fuel. At 750psi that is roughly 2.5ms, at 1000psi its about 2.1ms, at 1250psi its about 1.9, at 1500psi its about 1.6ms, at 2000psi its about 1.5ms, at 2500psi that is 1.4ms, and at 3000psi that is about 1.25ms. Looking at these data points at 2025 we should be able to run about a 1.5ms PW at 1000psi, at 2650 rpms we can hit any of our targets.

Its important to note that for any of the above data we can extend the PW longer, lower the ICP demanded and inject the same amount of fuel required for the task with no risk of not being able to meet the commanded ICP. None of the above takes into account anything with your turbocharger, or any other variables of driving up and down the road – but it does go to show some of the requirements that the injectors can exert on a high pressure oil system. There are lots of variables and this does not hold perfectly true in every case due to some of these variables – I hinted here and there about some things that can make these numbers seem out of place.

That’s the quick and loose version of how the injector setup can place demands on the high pressure oil system. It will be a few days before I can take this to the next level and show the effects of different injectors and different pumps on this system that must work together – For arguments sake I will stick to only 238cc hybrids for now – I will just change tips around – or pumps around – not total injector capacity. The moral of the story will be the faster injectors demand more oil (because they can expel more fuel per time) and the larger the oil pump the lower in the rpm band you can hold pressure on a set of injectors. Additional food for thought – just because you can dump all your fuel at full ICP pressure just off idle, doesn’t make it a good idea….

EDIT: I think I fixed the pictures....

 

[powerstroke95]

Yep thats exactly what I was looking for. Great info, Thanks!

 

[96stacked&smoken]

Very interesting thread, this is stuff alot of people don't know.

 

[97BambiBasherPSD]

Is there anything else that can be done inside the injector to make it fast? What about for the IDM to handle the electrical side of it?


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[bruce]

Is it even possible to move enough oil in the allotted time? I'd think that someone could invent an injector with an even lower injection ratio like 3:1. Farmer supposedly had some low injection ratio injectors. Hrt has some secret squirrel sh1t in his camp I guarantee it

 

[NyCowboy87]

Is it even possible to move enough oil in the allotted time? I'd think that someone could invent an injector with an even lower injection ratio like 3:1. Farmer supposedly had some low injection ratio injectors. Hrt has some secret squirrel sh1t in his camp I guarantee it

Low injection ratio will do nothing more than loose you injection pressure and atomization.

There are a couple people that have been working on some secret squirrel stuff.


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[Hotrodtractor]

Low injection ratio will do nothing more than loose you injection pressure and atomization.

There are a couple people that have been working on some secret squirrel stuff.


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That is not true. I don't have any of my data, calculations, etc with me - so bear with my explanation.

You have an injector and you activate it. Oil flows through the poppet and down into the intensifier piston and moves the plunger. There is pressure loss going through the poppet assembly and this pressure loss is exponentially proportional to the flow rate required. By reducing the injection ratio just right you can minimize this pressure loss. By optimizing the pressure loss to the injection ratio you can actually inject fuel at a higher pressure with a lower injection ratio because you have minimized the pressure loss through the poppet. This is exactly what happens when we show on a flow bench why a hybrid will outflow a B-code which outflows an A-code with all things being equal across the injectors with the exception of the injection ratio. At lower ICP and consequently lower flow rates the higher injection ratio injectors have a higher injection pressure.... but once you cross a certain threshold that reverses and the lower injection ratio actually delivers a higher pressure because of the lower pressure loss that is due to a lower oil flow requirement.

 

[NyCowboy87]

Makes good sense, thanks Jason.


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[97BambiBasherPSD]

That's a really good explanation Jason.

So what would you suggest, with the parts we have available currently, to use to make the 800 or more hp?


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[Tim @ P.I.S.]

True I'll agree with that Jason but don't injection events have to start overlapping up high? This is where the factory IDM says no and you have to pull pw to avoid the popping and missing.


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The popping and cracking occurs when the IDM freaks out because it can not interpret the signals it is receiving from the computer... ie the PW is too long to give a good clean signal for each injection event..... when this occurs you have already spent too much time attempting to inject fuel.

The popping/cracking is not the idm. This was proven several years ago. Customer with dedicated pull truck pulls brand x injectors, replaced with ours and no popping. NO OTHER CHANGES MADE AT THAT TIME. Added our beta hot rod idm and ran even better.

The popping is when the injector is not suppling the fuel that is being needed at that point. The IDM is not being pushed too far. If we could push the idm to the edge 1000hp would be a piece of cake.

 

[DocBar]

The village idiot just has to chime in....

If HPO is the issue, why can't you just add a remote HPO res (of any size), an electric pump that delivers 3500PSI all the time and get the desired HP? I have an idea of the answer, but want to see what you really smart guys think.

Please remember that I qualified this with "idiot" before you flame me. :gun:

 

[PsdPullerJr]

3500 psi at idle is not the best. I think I remember some threads from a few years back that talked about having the high pressure oil side of things seperate from the engine oil. Is that possible tho with a seperate hydraulic pump and a reservoir holding additional oil like a dry sump set up? Are the ports in the heads and thru the rest of the engine capable of flowing the needed volume?

 

[DocBar]

3500 psi at idle is not the best. I think I remember some threads from a few years back that talked about having the high pressure oil side of things seperate from the engine oil. Is that possible tho with a seperate hydraulic pump and a reservoir holding additional oil like a dry sump set up? Are the ports in the heads and thru the rest of the engine capable of flowing the needed volume?

The return side of HPO would be the obvious problem, but redesigning heads has already been discussed, so that's on the table, too. Or you could have the two systems co-mingle as they do now, just having a X qt. reserve added so that it's not noticed.

I can see several problems with what I suggest, but can those problems be tuned around easily enough to make it worthwhile. I would love to hear the guru's takes. Even if it solidifies my idiot status. Just trying to think outside the box.

 

[ja_cain]

I would think that the spring closing the valve in the injector would be a limitation at higher rpms. Do these get upgraded to supply higher seat pressure thus decreasing the time it takes to close the valve?

I too have noodled a separate oil system for the injectors. You could then use a fluid that wouldn't be as susceptible to molecular shearing like motor oil is in the heui system thus extending fluid change intervals. You could also reduce valve stiction at low operating temperatures.

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[OBS-Addiction97]

I would think that the spring closing the valve in the injector would be a limitation at higher rpms. Do these get upgraded to supply higher seat pressure thus decreasing the time it takes to close the valve?

I too have noodled a separate oil system for the injectors. You could then use a fluid that wouldn't be as susceptible to molecular shearing like motor oil is in the heui system thus extending fluid change intervals. You could also reduce valve stiction at low operating temperatures.

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Not to mention the hpop wouldn't be robbing the motor of Hp. That Is assuming the whole hpo system is external.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

The popping/cracking is not the idm. This was proven several years ago. Customer with dedicated pull truck pulls brand x injectors, replaced with ours and no popping. NO OTHER CHANGES MADE AT THAT TIME. Added our beta hot rod idm and ran even better.

The popping is when the injector is not suppling the fuel that is being needed at that point. The IDM is not being pushed too far. If we could push the idm to the edge 1000hp would be a piece of cake.

This kind of high RPM pop and cackle is due entirely to long PW that confuse the IDM by giving too little time for the IDM to differentiate between the highs and the lows of the FDCS signal that is being used to determine the duration of the injection event:

YouTube Video

While you are correct that having a poorly balanced set of injectors would provide for a rather rough and troublesome running engine - that isn't at all what is being discussed here. I also agree that a good strong running IDM, makes more power because of its ability to quickly and cleanly open the injector poppets and do that consistently better than the IDM it replaced.

 

[mustube]

Doesn't the idm start skipping injections if they start overlapping so it can keep the injection events on time?

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[Tim @ P.I.S.]

Doesn't the idm start skipping injections if they start overlapping so it can keep the injection events on time?

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The idm does not have control. It is a path.

Without the CPU in the system the idm can do sooooo much more. It's really a shame.

 

[97BambiBasherPSD]

Tim is there any way to fix that?


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