Lets talk turbos. T4 big singles

KCTurbos · Feb 6, 2014

:grouphug:

One of my favorite things in the world is to have spirited debates.
Another one of my favorite things is to learn more about the things i love and have a passion for.

but... one of the things I hate most is pointless heated debates with no facts, data, research, or knowledge, with people who don't care about learning... Basically pointless pissing matches. I am not saying that is what happened here but I try to avoid that as much as possible. These threads seem to go that way fast when people start to disagree on something.

I will be quick to admit that there are many people that have way more experience on the compound subject than I... but there is always something new to learn and better ways to do things. I love innovation!

strokin'_tatsch · Feb 6, 2014

There's more than one way to skin a cat when it comes to compounds IMO.

It is possible to have the turbos sized well enough to not need any gates at all. I've personally witnessed this in a compound turbo Cummins that is running no gates. I don't recall the sizing on the turbos, but they were built by E.D. Backpressure on the high pressure never got out of hand and it spooled very well. His setup was not a very large setup and didn't make huge amounts of power by todays standards. IIRC he did around 600hp.

Now, if the owner of that truck wanted more power, he could increase the size on the atmosphere turbo. The larger LP will take a bit longer to spool, but his HP will still spool quick enough to make it drivable. At some point though with the LP moving more air he will end up with backpressure getting out of hand on the high pressure charger. Now he can either gate the HP or increase the size of the HP to keep it reliable and allow the HP charger to flow enough exhaust to keep backpressure in check. If he increases the size of the HP, spool time will slow down even more.. Even if he just increases the turbine size, turbine housing size, or both off idle response will be slower.

That's how I think of this debate. Both ways will work, but each member here is looking for their truck to drive a certain way. IMO it makes perfect sense to gate excess pressure to the LP charger for the sake of keeping some off idle response for the guys looking for bigger power in a street truck. That does NOT mean that the HP is no longer doing it's job. It just isn't doing it the same way as a larger HP charger would be. At the same time for the guy building a tow rig that isn't looking for any huge power numbers can build a setup that is sized properly to use no gates like the Cummins that I spoke of. In the end, it's all about what the end user is looking for from his truck and what do we need to make the setup perform the way the end user wants. In some cases that may mean no gates and vice versa.

V-Ref · Feb 7, 2014

dzlpwr said:
just for reference I took a quick vid the other night of spool time cruising on the highway. This was doing just over 70 at 2k rpm as seen in the vid. Eased into it maybe a 1/4 throttle and you can see the boost come up to about 10psi on the factory gauge. Then went to about half throttle and the boost climbs to about 25-30psi. Just so you guys can see where I am at now with it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZTsDN0YBP0

Spools nice for a proven 700 hp single turbo truck. What were EGTs?

My vote for you is a GTX4202R. Don't like it and want more...you'll be able to spin it off pretty quick for not much of a loss if you buy right.

Another option is call Mr. Pius Eberle and have a upfront and frank discussion on where you're at now and what'd you like to do. If nothing else, you'll walk away from the conversation smarter about diesel turbocharging than before the phone call.

Bell Turbo
6040 SW Philomath Blvd
Corvallis, OR 97333
(541) 757-7580

Josh@DirtyDiesels · Feb 7, 2014

V-Ref said:
Spools nice for a proven 700 hp single turbo truck. What were EGTs?

My vote for you is a GTX4202R. Don't like it and want more...you'll be able to spin it off pretty quick for not much of a loss if you buy right.

Another option is call Mr. Pius Eberle and have a upfront and frank discussion on where you're at now and what'd you like to do. If nothing else, you'll walk away from the conversation smarter about diesel turbocharging than before the phone call.

Bell Turbo
6040 SW Philomath Blvd
Corvallis, OR 97333
(541) 757-7580

Thanks for his info. Definitely interested in his work if I end up keeping this truck, which is likely. It does spool nice and is a simple, relatively cost affective, proven setup. Can't go wrong. EGT's there, honestly, couldn't tell you. I don't even look anymore. I know how the truck reacts and where egt's usually are so I only look when I'm really laying into it. I can say they probably went from about 800 cruising to 11-1200 by the end of that. Yes, my truck runs hot, but what truck with big fuel and a big single doesn't? Had I gone wide open there it would have not gotten too much hotter right away because the turbo would have been moving more air. Hottest I have gotten it with the billet 75 and new mishimoto IC is about 1400. I was seeing well north of 17-1800 with my cast 72 and stock IC.

strokethis_06 · Feb 7, 2014

Pulling my 75 off very soon to test an s480/96/.90. Just because I have it and Im curious.

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Josh@DirtyDiesels · Feb 8, 2014

strokethis_06 said:
Pulling my 75 off very soon to test an s480/96/.90. Just because I have it and Im curious.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

Interested to see how it works.

MorganY · Feb 8, 2014

You guys and your big singles are crazy lol.

Josh@DirtyDiesels · Feb 8, 2014

MorganY said:
You guys and your big singles are crazy lol.

lol it's a lot of fun! Everyone who has driven my truck has been surprised at it's street manors. Working on having Eric write me a street tune for it now to see how clean we can get it. I've only ever had a custom dyno tune from him loaded in the truck LOL. All the power, all the time!! I have issues!

strokethis_06 · Feb 8, 2014

dzlpwr said:
lol it's a lot of fun! Everyone who has driven my truck has been surprised at it's street manors. Working on having Eric write me a street tune for it now to see how clean we can get it. I've only ever had a custom dyno tune from him loaded in the truck LOL. All the power, all the time!! I have issues!

Yeah. Same with mine. The street manners are unbelievable to most.

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MorganY · Feb 8, 2014

Lol. I know how they drive. My 62 is too laggy. 6.0s just don't have what it takes.

motoxracer42 · Feb 8, 2014

gtx4202 spools well. I don't really see a reason for a switch though. I would like to see your power output now. ive seen 4202s making around 900 and 45s over 1k. most people on here seem to be throwing a lot of money down the crapper. I hate seeing it. i can send you some spool up vids if need be. just hard to find traction anywhere when driving

Josh@DirtyDiesels · Feb 8, 2014

MorganY said:
Lol. I know how they drive. My 62 is too laggy. 6.0s just don't have what it takes.

LOL. I'm sure I would love a quick spooling compound setup though. I guess I'm just so used to driving a big single. I get in a stock truck or a 6.4 and I'm all like this is weird. Why does it spool at any rpm LOL

Josh@DirtyDiesels · Feb 8, 2014

motoxracer42 said:
gtx4202 spools well. I don't really see a reason for a switch though. I would like to see your power output now. ive seen 4202s making around 900 and 45s over 1k. most people on here seem to be throwing a lot of money down the crapper. I hate seeing it. i can send you some spool up vids if need be. just hard to find traction anywhere when driving

I really think my power level is lacking due to injectors and high pressure oil. I'm curious to see how my truck would run with a healthy set of hybrids in it. I feel like with proper fueling and a 475 it should be well over 700 on fuel?? any thoughts?

MorganY · Feb 8, 2014

dzlpwr said:
I really think my power level is lacking due to injectors and high pressure oil. I'm curious to see how my truck would run with a healthy set of hybrids in it. I feel like with proper fueling and a 475 it should be well over 700 on fuel?? any thoughts?

All depends on how much you're atomizing now. Should be able to hit over 700 on a 285 no problem

Josh@DirtyDiesels · Feb 8, 2014

MorganY said:
All depends on how much you're atomizing now. Should be able to hit over 700 on a 285 no problem

true. I REALLY need to get back on the dyno and datalog with this new pump. The truck feels a touch faster and seems to run better overall but nothing wild. Still pretty much cleans up to a light haze at WOT.

motoxracer42 · Feb 8, 2014

and im with morgan, you guys are nuts street driving these. i cant stand lag, and yes they are laggy theres just no way around it.

MorganY · Feb 8, 2014

dzlpwr said:
true. I REALLY need to get back on the dyno and datalog with this new pump. The truck feels a touch faster and seems to run better overall but nothing wild. Still pretty much cleans up to a light haze at WOT.

Open up ipr dc if it's not enough. Should be able to go up to 99

Josh@DirtyDiesels · Feb 8, 2014

motoxracer42 said:
and im with morgan, you guys are nuts street driving these. i cant stand lag, and yes they are laggy theres just no way around it.

I guess it doesn't bother me, because for the most part I just put around. With the converter unlocked putting around it doesn't bother me. Nor does it smoke out everything behind me constantly. IF that were the case I wouldn't street drive it.

MorganY said:
Open up ipr dc if it's not enough. Should be able to go up to 99

I am going to talk to eric about it. Right now holding it wide open I'm hitting about 80-85.

motoxracer42 · Feb 8, 2014

injectors are everything. ive seen so many fails lol. with 265cc hybrids i was over 1k. 3 years ago lol. alot of it is people slapping crap on that they don't need and ruining the whole setup with something small and simple.