Mild build questions

[alwaysdiesel]

Got bone stock 6.0 with 118xxx miles that is making metal so I'm prepping for a mild build, I'm suspecting lifter/cam failure but don't have any symptoms currently(other than the metal..).

I'm looking for some input on general modifications and mostly supporting mods. My plan is to replace HPOP and injectors since they've probably been contaminated, leading me to upgrade but still keep it daily drivable. I'm hoping to have it in the 5-600 HP range and still tow without excessive EGTs. I want to know what is all necessary at those power levels. I've read tons of threads, but lots of people don't list small or non power adding parts like upgraded valve train. Do I need springs/pushrods? Best budget fuel system? O-ringed heads? ..ETC
From what i've read, the bottom ends are tough so not too concerned there.

So far my list is:
-WDI or Holder's 190/30 or 205/30 205/75 (opinions on nozzle size?)
-Thumper I HPOP (rather than spending the same on stocker)
-KC Stage 2
-SCT X4
-Possibly Colt cam if stock is wiped
-ARPs
-Intake/exhaust
-5R110 Rebuild kit w/ upgraded converter
-Upgraded Up pipes
-Regulated return (best kit?)
-Fuel system?

Other things I plan to do:
-Replace lifters (opinions on OEM vs aftermarket?)
-Inspect or Replace LPOP
-Stand pipes and plugs
-Blue spring and Banjo bolts
-Glow plugs
-Belts and thermostats
-Oil cooler (suggestions)
-Bottom end gaskets for reseal
-EGR ******


Thanks. Feel free to PM me if you have some advice on brands you don't want to share here

 

[Zeb]

You’ve got a solid list there for a very fun, versatile truck. A few recommendations from having done a number similar builds.

OEM hpop. There are a number of instances where the Thumper 1 flows less than a stock one, and reliability is not as good.
205/30’s (not 75’s) and have the FICM tuned by WDI to pull pw to maintain max ICP as needed. PM me for recommendations on builders
KC Stage 2 is an excellent choice if you intend to stay vgt. I am a non vgt fan tho.
Colt Stage 2 cam, and Motorcraft lifters
Stock stall DPC Heavy Duty Triple disc converter, and leave the rest of the trans alone if it’s in good shape.
I build my own fuel systems. They are not cheap, but dead reliable, quiet, and nearer than any other system that I know of.
If you stay vgt, I take the stock up pipes and TIG in a set of heavy duty bellows. Done dozens of them and have never had one fail.
If you’re doing a fuel system you won’t have to do banjo bolts or blue spring
OEM oil cooler
Mahle gasket kit CS54450 for the bottom end, and HS54450 for everything else if it’s an 18mm motor, HS54579 if it’s a 20mm motor
Definitely do oringed heads. PM me for my recommendations
Stock pushrods and valve springs have always been adequate for me
Take the money you save by not rebuilding the trans and buy an ODawg 3 intake manifold.
Stick with OE for thermostat, glow plugs, stand pipes and dummy plugs.
The setup you’re looking to build is fun, versatile, and very reliable if done right.

 

[6.0 Tech]

Thw list youve got is good, as zeb said. Personally, id stay with 190\30s instead of 205s. Keep it at a 30 nozzle, as they dont smoke too bad, and still make decent power. The Kc stage 2 is a great turbo. Zebs fuel systems are really nice, he sent me a few pics of them at one time, I run a driven diesel regulated return with fuel bowl ******, with an air dog 2 4g 165 feeding it. An odawg intake manifold, and a no limit air intake are great upgrades. Colt stage 2s seem to be doing well as drop in cams, and I will disagree with zeb on the push rods/valve springs. Where push rods may not be a necessity, valve springs are a must. Ive pulled apart too many motors with valve marks on pistons to not run upgraded springs with high boost.

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[alwaysdiesel]

In parts alone it's around $15K (CAD) You guys in the states could probably knock 5K off that easily. I can't imagine someone doing an engine and having to pay for labor on top of that! Any vendors want to partially sponsor me? I'd be more than willing to promote up here!

Anyways..
I seemed to read good things on the Thumper, but would take reliability over slight HP gain if that's the case.
Recommend tuning a stock FICM? Can I skip FICM tuning if I go down to 190/30s as they would maintain ICP better than 205s?
As for VGT, I'm leaning that way for street ability and towing. Love the sound of non VGT though! Interested to hear more input from non VGT side. Price, spool, tuning?
Recommendations on bellows? who do you buy from and what style?
Good tip on valve springs, 120/125# should do? I did them on my 12 valve, nice peace of mind.

Just picked up an X4 today. Who's Tunes with this setup. I'd imagine if I get injectors through WDI, then it's best to run his tune also..? Heard lots about ********, **********, Quicktricks

 

[Zeb]

In parts alone it's around $15K (CAD) You guys in the states could probably knock 5K off that easily. I can't imagine someone doing an engine and having to pay for labor on top of that! Any vendors want to partially sponsor me? I'd be more than willing to promote up here!

Anyways..
I seemed to read good things on the Thumper, but would take reliability over slight HP gain if that's the case.
Recommend tuning a stock FICM? Can I skip FICM tuning if I go down to 190/30s as they would maintain ICP better than 205s?
As for VGT, I'm leaning that way for street ability and towing. Love the sound of non VGT though! Interested to hear more input from non VGT side. Price, spool, tuning?
Recommendations on bellows? who do you buy from and what style?
Good tip on valve springs, 120/125# should do? I did them on my 12 valve, nice peace of mind.

Just picked up an X4 today. Who's Tunes with this setup. I'd imagine if I get injectors through WDI, then it's best to run his tune also..? Heard lots about ********, **********, Quicktricks

Yes, if you step down to 190/30’s you can totally skip FICM tuning.
On the bellows I get them from Summit Racing. I can get you a part number, but don’t have it memorized.
If you do valve springs, do pushrods also. IMO, there is no point running stiffer pushrods with stock springs, but if you step up spring pressure you need to do better pushrods also.
I’ve run the SXE 362, 363, and 364.5 all with the 68mm turbine, .83 and .91 housings. My favorite is probably the 364.5/68/.83 with a 190/30 or 205/30. That turbo combo will run fairly high ebp at higher rpm, but for a normal street/daily driver/tow rig it is excellent. I built a motor for a friend that is virtually identical to what we’re talking about here (205/30’s, Colt Stage 2, ODawg, WDI’s FICM tuning and ECM tuning, 364.5/68/.83, Irate T-4) and that thing is a barrel of fun. 30psi at 1,700 rpm, over 40psi at 2,000 rpm, and peaks at 50psi in the low 3,000 rpm range on a hard pull. That is at 750’ above sea level.
Price for a 364.5 and Irate T-4 isn’t too far away from a KC Stage 2 and rebellowed up pipes.
I have a 363/68/.83 on our Excursion and tow with it quite often.

 

[6.0 Tech]

I run 120# valve springs and push rods from river city, got them as a package deal, think it was with lifters as well.

For tuning, I run tsd and idp. Idp seems to make the most power, but tsd makes the truck feel really light and peppy on the street. Gear head tunes are talked about a lot, supposedly have awesome shifting, I still meed to try them. Driven 1 truck with Warren tunes, it ran really well, seemed like it had a ton of power, and was a stock injector and turbo truck.

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[Zeb]

I should have specified on the Excursion, that it is an 03 and has my 225/30 conventionals, CNC Fab Stage 2 hpop, ODawg manifold, Colt Stage 2 cam, my fuel system, CSF 6028 intercooler, STOCK, ORIGINAL exhaust, WDI FICM (because I’m running 225 conventionals) and ECM tuning.
It has dynoed well over 500 hp on smaller injectors on a stingy dyno, and never comes off the Hot tune.
I have towed (gross) 17,500 lbs several times over 1,500 miles at up to 6,000’ elevation, with no egt issues.
That complete package is the key to things working well.

 

[6.0 Tech]

I should have specified on the Excursion, that it is an 03 and has my 225/30 conventionals, CNC Fab Stage 2 hpop, ODawg manifold, Colt Stage 2 cam, my fuel system, CSF 6028 intercooler, STOCK, ORIGINAL exhaust, WDI FICM (because I’m running 225 conventionals) and ECM tuning.
It has dynoed well over 500 hp on smaller injectors on a stingy dyno, and never comes off the Hot tune.
I have towed (gross) 17,500 lbs several times over 1,500 miles at up to 6,000’ elevation, with no egt issues.
That complete package is the key to things working well.

Well, ****, if we're gonna have a dick measuring contest, LOL.

My truck with 190/30s and a kc stage 2 did 615 with water meth ON the dyno, and backed up with track times. 12.66 at 106 at 7640 lbs.

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[Zeb]

Well, ****, if we're gonna have a dick measuring contest, LOL.

My truck with 190/30s and a kc stage 2 did 615 with water meth ON the dyno, and backed up with track times. 12.66 at 106 at 7640 lbs.

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Hey now, that’s not my intent at all! LOL Just trying to give some reference. I haven’t raced the Ex, but that sucker is heavy, 8,500+ lbs.

 

[6.0 Tech]

Hey now, that’s not my intent at all! LOL Just trying to give some reference. I haven’t raced the Ex, but that sucker is heavy, 8,500+ lbs.

Lol I know, I was just ****ing with ya.

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[alwaysdiesel]

Well, there’s the damage. Ate the cam obviously and needle bearing went through my LPOP so the front cover may need to be done.

What I want to know is how to keep these lifters from failing again.. this is a low mileage engine and looks like it was really well maintained. Only one of 16 failed. The more I talk to people the more I hear of lifters being the failure point in 6.0/6.4s and there are no real H.D lifters out there. What are the performance builds running and what’s keeping them alive

 

[Zeb]

Well, there’s the damage. Ate the cam obviously and needle bearing went through my LPOP so the front cover may need to be done.

What I want to know is how to keep these lifters from failing again.. this is a low mileage engine and looks like it was really well maintained. Only one of 16 failed. The more I talk to people the more I hear of lifters being the failure point in 6.0/6.4s and there are no real H.D lifters out there. What are the performance builds running and what’s keeping them alive

Motorcraft lifters, Motorcraft oil filter and cap, good oil, and keep the oil changed regularly.
Lots of idle time is murder on cam/lifters.
What year is it? 05+ have an hour meter on them.

 

[ncollins64]

I would disagree on the lifters but to each their own. Built several 6.0 and 6.4s with the hylyft Johnson lifters from RCD. Much better design and quality but hey it’s my opinion. I know they install them in all of there big power engines as well.

 

[Zeb]

I would disagree on the lifters but to each their own. Built several 6.0 and 6.4s with the hylyft Johnson lifters from RCD. Much better design and quality but hey it’s my opinion. I know they install them in all of there big power engines as well.

The Johnson lifters are excellent. Just pricey.
Bang for the buck (IMO) it’s hard to beat a Motorcraft lifter.

 

[ncollins64]

The Johnson lifters are excellent. Just pricey.
Bang for the buck (IMO) it’s hard to beat a Motorcraft lifter.

Yes I should’ve said that. If you have the money then there awesome. If not then oem is the way to go.

 

[alwaysdiesel]

I'm going to go with the Johnsons, no sense in building an engine to fail again. Any thoughts on me going to a KC 68 with 205/30s? Seeing as I'll be running a stage 2 cam and most likely ported intake mani and BD exh manis I should be spooling it quicker. Still want ability to pull large 5th wheel and boats/camper setup without having crazy EGTS.

 

[Zeb]

I'm going to go with the Johnsons, no sense in building an engine to fail again. Any thoughts on me going to a KC 68 with 205/30s? Seeing as I'll be running a stage 2 cam and most likely ported intake mani and BD exh manis I should be spooling it quicker. Still want ability to pull large 5th wheel and boats/camper setup without having crazy EGTS.

Stick with the KC Stage 2 turbo. It’ll be better, more fun all around than the 68mm Stage 3 is.

 

[6.0 Tech]

What zeb said. I did some testing for charlie with the stage 3 towing my 40ft toy hauler. While doable, it took a lot of attention to keep everuthing in line. I'm pretty sure I posted something,up on it here

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[6.0 Tech]

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/to...&share_tid=70582&share_fid=24581&share_type=t

See post 24 specifically, its got,my towing numbers in it.

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[gwunter]

I'm going to go with the Johnsons, no sense in building an engine to fail again. Any thoughts on me going to a KC 68 with 205/30s? Seeing as I'll be running a stage 2 cam and most likely ported intake mani and BD exh manis I should be spooling it quicker. Still want ability to pull large 5th wheel and boats/camper setup without having crazy EGTS.

If you really don't want them to fail again go with the harlandsharp or Warren diesel setup. But be sure your sitting down when you price them out.

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