Need a little info on injectors tip sizes

[DZL JIM]

I hear what you are saying.
You cannot click and buy injectors off of my website. I prefer to speak with the customer to make sure they are getting the correct injector. I do this, in part, due to the countless customers I have talked with over the years that read online they can tow with big nozzles, click and buy injectors from other's sites, only to end up melting pistons.
I agree, nothing with the 7.3 is new. But still, every truck and combination of parts seems to vary. I know many customers (most maybe) won't send their chip back 4 or 5 times for revisions. No matter how many times I tell them to work with their tuner to dial in their truck, most simply do not want to take the time to deal with tuning changes. I know this because they call asking if I can help them get in touch with said tuner because they can't reach them, or get a response.
I don't deal in tuning at all, either. I got tired of too many customers not happy with how the truck was performing and I lost money getting stuck in the middle.

I could go on and on about some of the people I talk with and what they read online, too. But it's just not realistic to expect good tunes with bigger nozzles on every truck out there.
A blind squirrel might find a nut every once in a while, and a 7.3 owner might stumble on good tunes for his truck about as often.

 

[emev0l]

There are so many things that can cause high EGT’s, poor tuning, not enough air, noost leaks, drive pressure leaks. I’m sure some of the problems can be solved with a mechanically sound truck. I have a customer who has a truck that we’ve built in stages, he didn’t have $15,000 to drop on it up front so right now he has a full fuel sustem with a sump, Fuelab pump, regulated return, ZF6 with a South Bend clutch, 250/200’s, and a stock turbo with an ebay wheel and cover. He tows with it all the time, it dyno’d 465ish rwhp, it drives around nice, the turbo is gonna die real soon, but if that tows fine, my 350/200’s tow fine, and lots of other people have no problems then it’s more then likely poor tuning, mechanical problems, unmatched parts. That being said, we’re in Michigan, not in a high altitude area with a lot of steep grades. This is all towing 10k, I can’t comment on any large injectors towing real heavy, I just have not had any customers wanting a 600 hp truck to tow 20k. Most people wont buy supporting mods so I isually steer them to 180/30’s because they work great with very minor supporting mods.

 

[BS Hauler]

So when you guys are talking big nozzles are you considering 100's big or are we talking 200's and bigger as big. I bought this 02 CCLB truck new and it only has 130,000 on it. I have done all the mods on it so far except for the injectors and tuner. I wanted to do them last as I thought that should be the right order of things. I am the only one that drives it and it is not my daily driver. It just lives on the horse trailer. Have farmed my whole life and have had semi's also hauling grain also. So I do know a little about big diesel engines and how to take care of them. I will retire in a couple years so I am just setting this up to be kind of my play truck to run just with the new 6.7's. 400 hp is plenty. And I know that your brain has to control your right foot. I didn't want to put in 175/80's and feel that it was a waste of money compared to the 238/100's with all the other supporting mods I have done so far. I think that I read somewhere that it is about 2hp/cc of injector capacity for max hp. I have 8 gauges ( I like actual gauges ), Full regulated return fuel system from tank to heads, New bellowed up pipes with heat wrap, full 4"MBRP turbo back exhaust, new Adrenaline pump, aluminum plenums from RiffRaff, new 38r and even removed cab and box and painted the frame. I just want to make reliable 400 hp that can tow all day long with a 15,000# trailer behind it. It runs 2,700 rpm down the interstate and would like to get the best mileage that is realistically possible. Thanks guys for the info. Just trying to learn from all you guys with the experience on this site.

 

[m j]

that is a good post full of the info a tuner should need to make a good recommendation for sticks

 

[superpsd]

There are hundreds of memebers here running 100-200% nozzles and towing, daily driving etc. I daily drive with 200% nozzles. Tuning was critical I tuned it myself and it took a few trys to nail down some good tunes. I can acrually drive the truck in a stock tune and it will idle like a stock truck and drive like a stock truck but has too much PW in the tune to go full throttle without crazy smoke. 200% nozzles can be very streetable and towable. After getting my tuning how I like it I can now shift to 4th gear and lug it at 30 mph and push pedal all the way to the floor and not smoke one puff. Majority of my adjuatments have been changed in the MFD, ICP, PW and SOI tables. I found my particular setup to be very critical of the SOI timing. A degree or two of timing made all the difference from a smoky hot turds that sucked to drive to a smooth powerband that was clean out the pipe. I do believe a majority of the trucks that have issues are due to issues wether it be poorly rebuilt injectors or worn sensors etc. The PCM needs good feedback to make good adjustments. A truck with an old IPR, old ICP sensor or old CPS is only adding to problems. To maintain reliability and repeatability the pcm needs feedback sensors to be in good condition. A S364sxe and 200/200s would likely make a good tow rig.

I will note that I am running B codes not hybrids I hand built and have never been flow tested.

 

[DZL JIM]

...Tuning was critical I tuned it myself and it took a few trys to nail down some good tunes....

There you go.
You have no idea how critical that is to your success right there.

 

[gnxtc2]

Like I have posted in the past and I'll post it again.....once you deviate from stock injectors, the truck needs to be live tuned, period. Every build is different.

I don't want to be removing/sending my chip in to be reprogrammed 4-5 times. One live tune session, all will be hashed out.

I got sick and tired in sending my chip in to be programmed because all the live tune sessions around me fall through, I bought a burner. Some tuners will send tunes via email and others don't.

Problem is that most will have no problem spending $$$$ for go fast parts but when it comes down to spending $$$ for tuning, brakes, safety, supporting mods, etc, etc they all of a sudden have alligator hands.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[m j]

buy a hydra and never send in a chip again

 

[MeTo]

Like I have posted in the past and I'll post it again.....once you deviate from stock injectors, the truck needs to be live tuned, period. Every build is different.

I don't want to be removing/sending my chip in to be reprogrammed 4-5 times. One live tune session, all will be hashed out.

I got sick and tired in sending my chip in to be programmed because all the live tune sessions around me fall through, I bought a burner. Some tuners will send tunes via email and others don't.

Problem is that most will have no problem spending $$$$ for go fast parts but when it comes down to spending $$$ for tuning, brakes, safety, supporting mods, etc, etc they all of a sudden have alligator hands.

Billy T.
[email protected]

From my experience and research, I'm in complete agreement with this. Except for the alligator hands (it's arms) issue.

I will be pulling my engine to reseal and rering it as soon as it warms up here in NE Wisconsin. It's at 360 psi and a weeping oil pan. I would also like to have 80% nozzles installed and rebalanced.

Right now I'm thinking 80% nozzles will "window" 160 cc well. It's just a light pulling tow pig, never a Viagra truck.

The person I would like to take care of my injectors is vehemently against having any nozzles bigger than a 30%, preferably zeros, on a tow pig. This is his position purely based on bad tuning and interweb miscommunication. In the end, he will do it, but I sure got a negative and discouraging email response.

Ok, now the tuning.

At this point, I have only been able to talk to two tuners concerning live tuning. As soon as both of them realized I want a tow pig live tuned, they declined. Both stated a tow pig does not need live tuning and I should just get some good custom tunes, "they are all you need". I say rubbish! There are too many variables. IMO, a PROPER tuning requires a butt in the seat no matter what it's intended use is.

So, I'm willing to pay for it and drive. What else can I do to get a live tune done? One would think tune vendors would post schedules when and where they will be live tuning? Not that I have found.

As for the alligator arms. I saw them in Green Bay last year. I ended up standing side by side at the urinals with him. Of course, he had a Guinness in his hand.

 

[emev0l]

buy a hydra and never send in a chip again

Best of all you can have multiple tuners tunes unlike the TS6 that’s writen in a batch.

I’ve never been live tuned, none of my customers have been live tuned, we have a ton of customers trucks with 180/30’s with stock turbos, 180/30’s with 38r’s, 238/100’s with s369’s, 250/200’s with modified stock turbos and s467.7’s and I was very happy with their tunes the first time I got them, and we use 3 different tuners, PHP, GH, and Dusty Hogate.

I run all 3 on my truck, the GH tow tune was perfect, no smoke and low EGT’s with 350/200’s, deal!

 

[emev0l]

From my experience and research, I'm in complete agreement with this. Except for the alligator hands (it's arms) issue.

I will be pulling my engine to reseal and rering it as soon as it warms up here in NE Wisconsin. It's at 360 psi and a weeping oil pan. I would also like to have 80% nozzles installed and rebalanced.

Right now I'm thinking 80% nozzles will "window" 160 cc well. It's just a light pulling tow pig, never a Viagra truck.

The person I would like to take care of my injectors is vehemently against having any nozzles bigger than a 30%, preferably zeros, on a tow pig. This is his position purely based on bad tuning and interweb miscommunication. In the end, he will do it, but I sure got a negative and discouraging email response.

Ok, now the tuning.

At this point, I have only been able to talk to two tuners concerning live tuning. As soon as both of them realized I want a tow pig live tuned, they declined. Both stated a tow pig does not need live tuning and I should just get some good custom tunes, "they are all you need". I say rubbish! There are too many variables. IMO, a PROPER tuning requires a butt in the seat no matter what it's intended use is.

So, I'm willing to pay for it and drive. What else can I do to get a live tune done? One would think tune vendors would post schedules when and where they will be live tuning? Not that I have found.

As for the alligator arms. I saw them in Green Bay last year. I ended up standing side by side at the urinals with him. Of course, he had a Guinness in his hand.

Dusty will live time you if you get enough trucks in one spot he’ll fly anywhere, but what don’t you like that your tunes do?

 

[Petro]

Best of all you can have multiple tuners tunes unlike the TS6 that’s writen in a batch.

I’ve never been live tuned, none of my customers have been live tuned, we have a ton of customers trucks with 180/30’s with stock turbos, 180/30’s with 38r’s, 238/100’s with s369’s, 250/200’s with modified stock turbos and s467.7’s and I was very happy with their tunes the first time I got them, and we use 3 different tuners, PHP, GH, and Dusty Hogate.

I run all 3 on my truck, the GH tow tune was perfect, no smoke and low EGT’s with 350/200’s, deal!

Ive also never had a truck live tuned, wether it be a customers or my own, never really seen the need as the tunes I was being sent were damn near perfect. I'll tell ya, a tuner that was hard to beat a few years back was Justin Struckman of Power-Struck. His tunes we're some of the best I ever drove for stock and modified trucks. There wasn't a single thing I ever wanted to be better on his tunes, and they were always perfect right out of the box. He's probably still a great tuner, just getting him to respond anymore or getting stuff in a timely manner is tough, the guy just got too busy and I completely understand that. Been using swamps recently and they have sh!t figured out also. Very Happy with their tunes.

 

[MeTo]

I have three of Dusty's tunes, their nice. I was only a couple of hundred miles from his live tuning in Arizona. BUT, I didn't know he was their at the time. I found out about it when we were discussing an idle issue when I was back in Wisconsin. He is going to let me know the next time he is in my area. Hopefully I will have my engine done by then?

Without writing a letter. I'm looking to take the ballpark tuning (no disrespect) to the next level. I'm an engineer, I could buy stuff, but I prefer building most of what I need or want. It's a Chevy versus Porsche thing.

 

[MeTo]

I'm just digging a hole; politics, religion, tunes ........

 

[DZL JIM]

...The person I would like to take care of my injectors is vehemently against having any nozzles bigger than a 30%, preferably zeros, on a tow pig. This is his position purely based on bad tuning and interweb miscommunication. In the end, he will do it, but I sure got a negative and discouraging email response....

Did he also say that if you wanted to run bigger nozzles you could do so with having the truck live tuned?

Ive also never had a truck live tuned, wether it be a customers or my own, never really seen the need as the tunes I was being sent were damn near perfect...

Man, I wish I had 1/8th of your luck.

 

[emev0l]

I have three of Dusty's tunes, their nice. I was only a couple of hundred miles from his live tuning in Arizona. BUT, I didn't know he was their at the time. I found out about it when we were discussing an idle issue when I was back in Wisconsin. He is going to let me know the next time he is in my area. Hopefully I will have my engine done by then?

Without writing a letter. I'm looking to take the ballpark tuning (no disrespect) to the next level. I'm an engineer, I could buy stuff, but I prefer building most of what I need or want. It's a Chevy versus Porsche thing.

You’re gonna need a lot bigger injectors to be able to use that comparison lol

Most “tuning issues” end up being something wrong with the truck.

People don’t want to live tune a truck with small injectors because there’s not much smoke to remove, not much power to be gained, and if there’s ssomething wrong with your truck that’s causing your issue it’s not their place to diag and fix your truck.

If people are having “tuning issues” with tunes that work on trucks with the same setup, they should take it to a good local shop and have them figure out what’s going on.

 

[DZL JIM]

...If people are having “tuning issues” with tunes that work on trucks with the same setup, they should take it to a good local shop and have them figure out what’s going on.

This isn't always the case.
And from my experience, it's hardly ever the case.
Every truck is different and needs to be treated as such.
I know I've shared before. I once had access to 3 identical OBS trucks. All 5 speed trucks, all regular cabs, all had just Stage-1's for upgrades. I put the same chip, not the same tune, but the actual same chip in all 3 trucks, and all 3 trucks ran differently.
None had any mechanical issues to figure out.
They are just different.

I can see that from some of your perspectives it's hard to understand how that can be.
From my perspective, and experience, it's hard for me to believe you can actually have perfectly running trucks using the same tunes. It just doesn't happen.
:shrug:

 

[gnxtc2]

You guys that posted that your tunes were perfect the first round....we're those trucks SD or OBS trucks?

OBS PCM have much less parameters than a SD.

Billy T.
[email protected]

 

[DZL JIM]

Billy, you know, you might be on to something. ???
I have never owned a Super Duty, only OBS and then 6.0, 6.4.
Curious to know, too.

 

[m j]

my obs ran fine with GH tunes.

you guys are aware the factory sends all these trucks out with a canned tune, cant be that different