New LPOP Now Surging

[Jtreece]

I was having low oil base pressure so we changed out the LPOP and have good pressure now but my pickup is surging now and almost wanting to die.

2004 F350 - has all new motor craft filters, blue spring upgrade, OEM injectors, fuel pressure is good, base oil pressure is good, ficm V is good, batteries are good. just kind of at a loss and thinking its going to be something stupid... any help would be awesome, thanks in advance fellas..

 

[6.0 Tech]

Early or late build? Could be icp or ipr causing the surge

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[Jtreece]

late. I will check them tonight.

 

[Jtreece]

6.0 Tech I can always count on you to reply no matter what the question is and I appreciate that. You always give sound advice, if you were in Kansas I'd buy you a stripper for the evening hahah.

 

[Jtreece]

man, so we dug into my PCM to engine harness last night.... and found probably 15 wires so far and they are either melted together or bare wires grounding out... fixing it tonight and scabbing in new wires, test drive and see if this is the reason. New harness on order.
they all went to sensors and the turbo.

 

[6.0 Tech]

Good find man, probably gonna fix it. If the pcm gets goofy readings, **** goes crazy...

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[Jtreece]

I'm guessing there are more shorts the further we dig into it tonight but at least we possibly found the problem.

 

[bismic]

Have to ask - what do you think caused the wiring issue?

 

[Jtreece]

original wiring harness, so its been pulled and install several times due to work etc. and just old and was cracking from being heated and cooled so much. Once the bare wires touched and melted a few of them. On another note we replaced a bunch of old wires with new, rewrapped and we are all good there and my pickup isn't throwing a single code. Hooked up the snap on computer and noticed my IPR jumping pressure between base and actual while it was surging. New IPR going in this evening to see if that fixes the surging. 6.0 Tech could possibly be right on this one haha. the ICP is new less than 2 months old so we are starting with the IPR. I will keep you guys updated if it fixes the surge.

 

[Jtreece]

well we pulled the IPR, and there was a small amount of metal shavings and the screen had a very small slit in it... didn't run a magnet over it yet (forgot) we through in another used IPR and it was bad. Going to get a new one but I'm guessing my motor is shot?

 

[Zeb]

well we pulled the IPR, and there was a small amount of metal shavings and the screen had a very small slit in it... didn't run a magnet over it yet (forgot) we through in another used IPR and it was bad. Going to get a new one but I'm guessing my motor is shot?

Not necessarily.
I’ve had them come in with a hole in the screen, and trash on it, put an oil cooler screen and IPR in them and they’re still running years later.
I’ve also had them come in with lifters chewed up, cam lobes wiped off, and all kinds of metal shavings thru out the motor, and the IPR screen looks fine.

 

[6.0 Tech]

well we pulled the IPR, and there was a small amount of metal shavings and the screen had a very small slit in it... didn't run a magnet over it yet (forgot) we through in another used IPR and it was bad. Going to get a new one but I'm guessing my motor is shot?

I'm gonna agree with zeb on this one, seen plenty of them with a bunch of **** on the screen and holes punched through that have come back for more work over 50k later. Most customers dont want to pay to have the screen under the oil cooler changed, so most ive done ive just thrown an ipr in them, and theyve been fine.

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[bismic]

The motor is fine IMO. At worst you may have an HPOP starting to go out.

 

[Jtreece]

Well those comments make me feel a little better except bismic, the HPOP is new. But the HPOP is cheaper than a motor I guess. Dealer wanted 348$ for the new IPR and that is excessive, so I ordered a motorcraft IPR online for half the price just have to wait for it to arrive. I'm thinking about changing out the turbo solenoid as well (original) just makes sense for the current surging to go ahead a change it for piece of mind.

 

[bismic]

Did you change the screen and clean the sump under the oil cooler when the HPOP was changed out?

What HPOP did you install? There have been cases of bad remanufactured HPOP's right out of the box.

That said, hopefully it is only the IPR (but the metal shavings didn't originate in the IPR). Good place to start anyway.

Remember, the IPR duty cycle is only a commanded value, it is not an actual valve position.

 

[Jtreece]

yes we cleaned it all out and we changed the screen out about 3 months ago when we did the oil cooler. HPOP is maybe 2 years old and haven't had a problem with it since install. I agree the metal shavings didn't originate there. My LPOP was what went out and scarred up the small cover so I'm hoping its that but we will see when this new IPR. I had no base oil pressure so we install a new LPOP. Its going in tonight. will send update tomorrow morning. With good or bad news. On another note anyone know what base oil pressure is suppose to be on a cold/warm 6.0? we have a gauge on it and we have good pressure but now my gauge drops to 0 and the "check gauges" light comes on I'm hoping its the sensor.

 

[Zeb]

Cold idle oil pressure should be around 75 psi, hot (up to operating temp) should be 30-35psi, measured at the filter.
I drilled and tapped the center of a factory cap to get pressure readings.

 

[Jtreece]

that's what I am getting on pressure I believe but will double check again tonight. I have an Aftermarket cap due to oil filter bypass so we just put the gauge on the cap like you said.

 

[Jtreece]

well the cab and motor are going to be pulled soon. I am losing low pressure oil somewhere in the motor. After pickup is up to operating temp the base oil PSI is around 12-14 at idle after the new LPOP install. My mechanic said the cam could be shot??

 

[Zeb]

well the cab and motor are going to be pulled soon. I am losing low pressure oil somewhere in the motor. After pickup is up to operating temp the base oil PSI is around 12-14 at idle after the new LPOP install. My mechanic said the cam could be shot??

Ive never seen a cam issue make the lpop weak. It usually just destroys it.
Do you have any issues with it starting hot or cold?
If youre front cover, and/or oil pump cover is scared up that could be causing your low pressure issue. Usually they crank a little longer, especially hot, when that is the case.
Another thing that I have seen cause a low base pressure reading on an 03-04 6.0 is if the ball blows out of the side of the hpop. That usually causes them to crank for a long time cold, and then have 2-6psi oil pressure at hot idle.
I’ve seen this happen on 3 different trucks.