Optimal tow setup

[Lt.Dan]

Hey guys. I'm curious everyone's opinion on "Optimal Tow Setups" for the 7.3. Im talking heavy towing 15-20k lbs, what list of mods (not just inj/turbo setups, but gear ratios, HPOPs, exhaust combos, intercooler setups, etc) would you prefer to keep up or out-do the new 6.7s (if that's possible...). With say a $25k budget?

I'm also curious on people extravagant mods, like head porting, cams, tubular exhaust manifolds, or even steel pistons. Id like to hear everybody's thoughts.

 

[Bugman]

For reliability I wouldn't even try it.

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[Lt.Dan]

Why not? Can't make a decent 400whp without it being a ticking time bomb?

 

[Bugman]

400 I believe you would be fine, but keeping up with a 6.7 would be the question

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[Lt.Dan]

I think the stock 6.7s are putting down 400 whp right? I understand you can't make a continuous 5-550hp without melting parts rather quickly. I have been addressing alot of weak links already, such as installing a 2006 Dana 80 dually, a 2008 dana 60 front, a Diesel Site legendary trans, trans coolers, upgraded drivelines etc.

But that's besides the point for right now.

 

[superpsd]

2019 srw 6.7 trucks average like 410 rwhp and 2020 srw 6.7s are seeing around 475 rwhp. Still not sure whats going on as it's clear ford is underating the true power of the 3rd generation. A 400 whp 7.3 is no problem. Been done thousands of times reliably. Your going to need a built transmission if you haven't already. Upgraded coolers. 160/30 or 200/30 hybrids would make good towing injectors with good tuning. You don't need engine modifications for 400 hp. Headstuds not exactly necessary although always good insurance. A good turbo goes a long ways a S364.5sxe or S363sxe for a manual towing rig works great.

 

[JCart]

Optimal for no muss/fuss... 6.7 Equipped F450. For the 7.3, buckets and buckets of cash.... and load a 6.7 in your dinosaur cab and frame. My son has a ‘19 CCLB F350 6.7, thing is a space ship compared to my old sig truck and tows like a beast. Beauty rig, I’ll stick to my old rig though. Chewing on water injection with saddle tanks between frame and box skin and better turbo like KC 364.5 with T4 and have a T500 on the shelf for it. Looking forward to comparing though as we have a hill that’s 6-8% grade and over 6 miles long that we travel all the time. Currently 6.7s will blow by me whisper quiet pulling huge TTs and other assorted loads.... meanwhile my feet are just flappin (like Fred Flintstone) on the verge of bursting into flames..

 

[Lt.Dan]

Injectors is my next step, and speaking with rosewood, im debating on 160/30 or 180/30. I figure a 200/30 might be a bit much for me and what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm also experimenting with some different intercooler setups and water meth as well.

 

[JCart]

Injectors is my next step, and speaking with rosewood, im debating on 160/30 or 180/30. I figure a 200/30 might be a bit much for me and what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm also experimenting with some different intercooler setups and water meth as well.

Lemme know how you make out.
I’m really pleased with my FFD 205/30 hybrids and Hydra with Jelibuilt tunes. Stock turbo with KC internals is the limiting factor with mine at the moment. And running 4:10s with 37” I’d like more off idle boost, currently at 1950 rpms and higher gets lively... so thinking .91 A/R on the exhaust side running a 1.0 at the moment.
Here is some interesting reading and gear
https://rbracing-rsr.com/waterinjection.html

Cheers,
j

 

[m j]

Injectors is my next step, and speaking with rosewood, im debating on 160/30 or 180/30. I figure a 200/30 might be a bit much for me and what I'm trying to accomplish. I'm also experimenting with some different intercooler setups and water meth as well.

the cc mean nothing, unless that 200 is a hybrid. they all have the same nozzle which means they can all be tuned exactly the same until the plunger bottoms. put the largest one in.

 

[Petro]

Put together a ton of 238/100 38r and s366 combo's. 90 percent of these were daily driver tow rigs and after 5 or 6 years guys are still driving and towing heavy with them. When tuned correctly, Its a very strong running setup that tows very well. Lot of guys will steer you away from drop in chargers but I have a ton of customers who have been running them for several years without any complaints and towing heavy is a weekly occurrence. The 7.3 can really be a towing monster if set up correctly.

 

[Lt.Dan]

I would love to go with a 205/30, but after talking with a couple injector builders, they all told me not to because of the weight I will be pulling. Why would they tell me that then?

 

[Garbage_Mechanic]

This has been my goal on my build. Towing, reliability, daily driver, mileage.
After much consideration, I had the original Swamps build and dyno this combo:
Ported heads, stock cam, coated pistons, 364.5, Beans plenums, Swamps HFHV IDM, 160/30’s.
Running Swamps Babies tune after a few hours break in on Swamps engine dyno it pulled 460 hp and 1,000 ft lbs at the crank. Not sure what that equates to RWP but I was impressed. We will see how it pulls when I get it running.

 

[Addicted4]

I would go hybrid 238/80 for injector. Will be more efficient than a 30% nozzle. Talk with the tuner of choice and see what they recommend and what they can do for you.

 

[psduser1]

Hey guys. I'm curious everyone's opinion on "Optimal Tow Setups" for the 7.3. Im talking heavy towing 15-20k lbs, what list of mods (not just inj/turbo setups, but gear ratios, HPOPs, exhaust combos, intercooler setups, etc) would you prefer to keep up or out-do the new 6.7s (if that's possible...). With say a $25k budget?

I'm also curious on people extravagant mods, like head porting, cams, tubular exhaust manifolds, or even steel pistons. Id like to hear everybody's thoughts.

Imo, the power is the easy part. 400hp is pretty simple, I've been towing at that level-ish (never dynoed) for about 200k miles, on simple mods. Injectors (160-180/80,100% )
38r, decent intake, tunes, and aftermarket single hpops, in two trucks. One truck has always had something wrong with the turbo, never checked it out to see what the problem is. Gotta watch the egts in that truck. The other truck-id let you take off with 25k hooked to the back, and not think twice about it. One manual, the other, automatic. And yes, 25k, many many times.

The bigger issue is going to be brakes, or lack of. Suspension is marginal, but airbags will take care of most of that.
The transmissions will limit you, as well. I've been thru a couple of zf 6, but a 6.0 trans cooler has helped that issue dramatically. With a zf5, you'll only go thru clutches quicker, lol.
I really think the optimal setup would be a 4r with a programmable aftermarket controller, and an increased maintenance schedule to keep the oil happy.
I really think that over 4-450 hp, you are going to hurt yourself, from a durability standpoint. Of course, compounds, big oil, etc would be fun. In fact that is all on my shelf at the shop, and not in the truck, for a reason.

 

[Garbage_Mechanic]

Another person who has done a lot of high hp towing is Charles. He found out the most limiting factor was the trans and diff. With the set up he had (has?) I believe he had 200% nozzles, he didn’t have problems keeping the engine together. He was able to literally melt ZF6 and F550 diff gears due to heat build up under high hp heavy towing.
One of the reasons I kept mine at a relatively conservative level was I didn’t want the clutch to be a bitch and I didn’t want reliability issues.
The developing ability to run a program’s lead variable vane SXE based turbo may be a big help in the future.

 

[Garbage_Mechanic]

As for the ultimate tranny let’s just jump straight to an Allison 6 speed. Can be done now.

 

[79jasper]

As for the ultimate tranny let’s just jump straight to an Allison 6 speed. Can be done now.

I'm still wanting to see someone put one behind a decently built 7.3.
For those curious, the conversion company is https://www.caconversions.com/
I thought the website used to show pricing for complete swap kits. Didn't see it now.

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[Lt.Dan]

Lots of good info here guys, any other ideas on stuff?

Anybody have experience with water meth injection and comments on that? I plan on running straight water, for max cooling. I also have Snows stage 3 kit that is based off both EGTs and Boost, I figured that would work best for me being that its based on EGTs and not solely on boost, which might not be optimal.

 

[6.0 Tech]

Lots of good info here guys, any other ideas on stuff?

Anybody have experience with water meth injection and comments on that? I plan on running straight water, for max cooling. I also have Snows stage 3 kit that is based off both EGTs and Boost, I figured that would work best for me being that its based on EGTs and not solely on boost, which might not be optimal.

Running water meth based on egts can be very bad for the engine. If you get under the turbo, and start getting egts hot, at like 1200 rpms, and start injecting water, you can hurt ****. Ideally, you would base it off boost and egts simultaneously. Something to where it wouldnt inject until above 15 psi, and 1200 degrees or something like that.

I ran a snow stage 2 kit on my truck for a while. Only reason I'm not now, is I do t have my washer reservoir with my compounds. I did not see a crazy temp drop running straight water, only 2-300 degrees. With a 50/50 mix, using washer fluid, there was 0 temp drop, but a decent power gain. With it under jetted, it did 45 hp at the wheels.

As for your towing setup, we just put one together at the shop that had a huge camper on it, and tows about 12k fairly often. He said the truck was 9600 without a trailer. We did 205/30 full force injectors, a cnc Fab stage 2 hpop, and a kc stage 1 turbo, guy was happy as hell when he took it over a couple 7% grades between 5000 and 8000 feet. His original comaint was high egts with a kc stage 3 I think it was and 160/0, with a 17 degree bosch pump.

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