pmr's make a mess

[CSIPSD]

Joe, doesn't her 38r and your old setup on the truck have 1.15 exhaust housings?

If so, then that helps explain they those 2 setups have withstood. (tuning aside).

I personally wouldn't run a 38r with the wg 1.0 housing because of the retarded amount of backpressure. 1.15, maybe.

Back pressure will not blow a motor... Boost and back pressure have very little to do with cylinder pressures.

That being said, she has the 1.15 housing on it like I did.

 

[dietoremain]

This thread is very very interesting.. Even if I get sticks on my truck bill is doing the tuning!!

 

[PatriotHauling]

So I keep hearing DP blamed for this kind of thing. Someone want to explain to me how Jody's tunes cause this? It seems to me that if he is going to throw a rod it is going to happen no matter who tuned the truck... Thats what happens when you throw big boost and injectors on an engine.

 

[cfdeng7]

Timing has a chit ton to do with cylinder pressures. Too much timing can blow any motor. Pmr's or a full billet race motor.

 

[Strokersace]

Back pressure will not blow a motor... Boost and back pressure have very little to do with cylinder pressures.

That being said, she has the 1.15 housing on it like I did.

Thanks for the info Joe.

 

[CSIPSD]

So I keep hearing DP blamed for this kind of thing. Someone want to explain to me how Jody's tunes cause this? It seems to me that if he is going to throw a rod it is going to happen no matter who tuned the truck... Thats what happens when you throw big boost and injectors on an engine.

Do you just red DP when ever I post? I did not once mention a particular tuner.

What I said is PMR's are not the devil. People fear PMR's because of past tuning issues...

With good tunes there is no reason to worry about PMR's in the 400-450hp range. NONE.

 

[firehunter]

Mine gave out going 35 downhill.

Jizzy did finally blow up. It was not on a dyno or anything of the sort. It was on the way home from the grosery store, like most PMR's fail.

I think it was on PSN but Charles had a good theory on why PMR's usually fail on deceleration and not on hard acceleration. Basically it was the rod gets slightly bent on a hard pull creating a weak spot in the rod, on deceleration the rod is pulling the piston down instead of the piston pushing the rod down, rod fails at the bend/weak spot. When I asked Charles more specifics about the theory his response to me was, "Don't bend the rod in the first place and there won't be an issue!"

Kainers ran older Dp tuning, with a blue CPS... I drove that truck several times over the years, it was a beast.

I had Kainers and Jizzy in my driveway a few months before she finally let go and he was really sold on that blue CPS. I wish he was still around to explain for himself but he told me that the blue CPS inherently retarded the timing across the entire RPM range and he credited that for keeping his engine alive for so long and still making the power it did.

 

[Big Bore]

I wish he was still around to explain for himself but he told me that the blue CPS inherently retarded the timing across the entire RPM range and he credited that for keeping his engine alive for so long and still making the power it did.

Now that's interesting on several levels. For some reason I've always thought it advanced the timing. Quit using it in fact. Still have a brand new one in the box somewhere. I'm curious to find out more details on what it actually does.

 

[Layson]

I think the truck was live tuned with the blue cps. Is that right joe?

 

[MINK]

This thread is very very interesting.. Even if I get sticks on my truck bill is doing the tuning!!

I'll give you one guess whos tunes I was running when my 02 windowed the block around 300hp....

PMRs are a gamble no matter the experience IMO.

 

[dietoremain]

I'll give you one guess whos tunes I was running when my 02 windowed the block around 300hp....

PMRs are a gamble no matter the experience IMO.

Heck I've seen a stock PMR motor blow up at just over 200k(no tunes even), friend of mine. So that being said if theres a problem it will show, and more with tuning.. If not, enjoy it my PMR motor has been tuned for 25k and tickin along like new. I dont feel like I'm gambling anything at all.

 

[MINK]

Heck I've seen a stock PMR motor blow up at just over 200k(no tunes even), friend of mine. So that being said if theres a problem it will show, and more with tuning.. If not, enjoy it my PMR motor has been tuned for 25k and tickin along like new. I dont feel like I'm gambling anything at all.

If a engine "ticking along like new" gives you faith in a connecting rod then more power to you.

 

[Jhaddox]

If a engine "ticking along like new" gives you faith in a connecting rod then more power to you.

:whs: I've seen pmr motors give up for no reason at a completely random time, they were running fine before that


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[MINK]

:whs: I've seen pmr motors give up for no reason at a completely random time, they were running fine before that


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thats how they all go bra...but there is always a reason

 

[firehunter]

Now that's interesting on several levels. For some reason I've always thought it advanced the timing. Quit using it in fact. Still have a brand new one in the box somewhere. I'm curious to find out more details on what it actually does.

Well, here is the next best thing to Mike (Kainers) telling the story himself...

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12803&highlight=blue+cps

From more than three years ago! Be sure to read all of it...

I think the truck was live tuned with the blue cps. Is that right joe?

Not Joe, but Mike says it was live tuned in the above thread.

 

[Big Bore]

Well, here is the next best thing to Mike (Kainers) telling the story himself...

http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12803&highlight=blue+cps

From more than three years ago! Be sure to read all of it...

LOL, thanks for posting that link, found part of something I said years ago in someones sig, used link to the entire post, killed myself laughing at myself. Bold was in Imjosh' sig.

All you need is a bathroom, kithen, bedroom and living room. An old single wide should do just fine. Should be able to pick one up down in Arkaksas pretty cheap, and woth the kind of power you will be making, you could tow it wherever you want. And when the wife divorces you she aint gonna want it anyway. John Wayne doesnt care where you watch his movies, and beer doesnt care where the refirgerator is.

 

[CSIPSD]

I think the truck was live tuned with the blue cps. Is that right joe?

Yes, but keep in mind the PCM has no idea what CPS is in it, nor what that CPS is doing to the timing signal.

Being live tuned did not nullify the Blue CPS effect IMHO.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

Yes, but keep in mind the PCM has no idea what CPS is in it, nor what that CPS is doing to the timing signal.

Being live tuned did not nullify the Blue CPS effect IMHO.

Say what? I'm not sure I follow this line of thought.

Suppose I live tune a truck with a black CPS and get my timing all dialed in just the way I want it - I pop a blue CPS in and the timing is altered somehow - either retarded or advanced doesn't matter at the moment we both agree its probably different. NOW - I go and I live tune the truck for the blue CPS and get the timing on my injection events just the way I want them.... How is that different than when it was live tuned with the black CPS? What effect am I missing that the CPS can give you other than timing?

 

[CSIPSD]

Say what? I'm not sure I follow this line of thought.

Suppose I live tune a truck with a black CPS and get my timing all dialed in just the way I want it - I pop a blue CPS in and the timing is altered somehow - either retarded or advanced doesn't matter at the moment we both agree its probably different. NOW - I go and I live tune the truck for the blue CPS and get the timing on my injection events just the way I want them.... How is that different than when it was live tuned with the black CPS? What effect am I missing that the CPS can give you other than timing?

How does the PCM know what the actual timing is? Is there a mechanical connection between the PCM and the cam/crank that tells it, or is it relying on the CPS to tell it what it is?

Black CPS assumes 0* of change (just throwing numbers out there)
Blue CPS assumes 4* of change...

When your live tuning do you know what the timing is or are you just looking at the tables and MAP's and adjusting from there...

This is my line of though on it...

I'm not trying to be a smart ass with anything above, this is just my line of thought.

 

[Hotrodtractor]

How does the PCM know what the actual timing is? Is there a mechanical connection between the PCM and the cam/crank that tells it, or is it relying on the CPS to tell it what it is?

Black CPS assumes 0* of change (just throwing numbers out there)
Blue CPS assumes 4* of change...

When your live tuning do you know what the timing is or are you just looking at the tables and MAP's and adjusting from there...

This is my line of though on it...

I'm not trying to be a smart ass with anything above, this is just my line of thought.

You are correct the PCM relies on the CPS to tell it where the crank is - so if you dial in the timing tables with the Black CPS then dial in the timing tables with a Blue CPS - your tables for the blue CPS with just be +4 degrees of timing using your made up numbers for this argument - the actual injection event taking place in the engine should be identical if the timing was truly dialed in in both instances.

FWIW - I didn't think you were being a smart ass - but I don't care if the CPS is magenta - if the timing table is dialed in via live tuning with that color and its maintained that way it doesn't matter.