Power output of stage 1’s

[Addicted4]

What power can be reached at a maximum 1200* no matter load with no smoke? Anyone ever dyno a stage 1, 1.5, 2, hybrid 80-100% nozzle, 200% nozzle in a no smoke 1200* egt? Just curious for discussion

You see some tuners or turbo builders or injectors builders saying maximum power but that’s dirty power and not practical for hooking to a trailer without watching gauges or side mirror.

Any sponsors that may still be out there feel free to respond that would be great

 

[Big Bore]

... that’s dirty power

Thats all in the tuning. You can tow with a max power tune. Finding a tuner who can do that is your biggest hurdle. Shift programming is a big culprit. Stock shift tuning actually works about perfect. Ramping fuel up early is another big issue and very common. Smoke is a sign of a poorly written tune in most cases. Over sensitive throttle and smoke was a big fad at one time and mistaken for having the best power and led to the worst tuning practices. Max fuel at WOT and scale it back in a nice linear fashion. Not a steep peak off idle then a flat spot to WOT. And leave the trans program alone. This obviously assumes an auto. Lugging a stick will smoke regardless.

 

[dmd]

Tuning and supporting hardware. Many of the larger injectors need a turbo and HPOP upgrade, so
just injectors is not all it takes. Now just a "stage 1" you can usually get by with stock
everything except exhaust(which the muffler should be replaced with something that
isn't so restrictive), much more than that and it takes some more work.

 

[Big Bore]

What power can be reached at a maximum 1200* no matter load with no smoke? Anyone ever dyno a stage 1, 1.5, 2, hybrid 80-100% nozzle, 200% nozzle in a no smoke 1200* egt? Just curious for discussion

He doesn't post here anymore and doesn't tune anymore, but he wrote the best tunes my trucks ever had after repeated failures by a big name tuner. This should be relevant to your question.

Push it more than what??? Tuning????

Like I said before, forget everything about what an injector can possibly make. Instead, it's all about how much fuel, at what time, and at what duration. Guess what controls that?

450 hp on 175/80's with an HPOP? Ok, what are the EGT's at 450hp vs my 250/200's on a bone stock HPOP? I'll give you a hint, I'll run up a mountain towing at full capacity with 450hp on tap and struggling to reach 1200 EGT's while those 175/80's are capped at 350hp and reaching 1300+. And I'll do it while breaking the speed limit. Get a set of 175/80's to keep up. It hasn't happened yet, and it won't.

Seen it already.

Folks, start thinking outside the box. riest:

And this isn't a pissing contest, so don't take it that way Tim. It's just going against what has been preached time and time again since these trucks rolled off the assembly line. Smaller injectors doesn't mean greater reliability. That's the point I'm trying to drive home. It's all in the tuning.

There is far more potential then what people have been trained to believe.

 

[Lt.Dan]

Thats all in the tuning. You can tow with a max power tune. Finding a tuner who can do that is your biggest hurdle. Shift programming is a big culprit. Stock shift tuning actually works about perfect. Ramping fuel up early is another big issue and very common. Smoke is a sign of a poorly written tune in most cases. Over sensitive throttle and smoke was a big fad at one time and mistaken for having the best power and led to the worst tuning practices. Max fuel at WOT and scale it back in a nice linear fashion. Not a steep peak off idle then a flat spot to WOT. And leave the trans program alone. This obviously assumes an auto. Lugging a stick will smoke regardless.

I have to disagree with "stock shift tuning works about perfect". There are so many different shift strategies across the 9 years the 7.3 powerstroke was produced, and 95% of them were GARBAGE. I have MIF6 and I can attest it was downright horrible. I also had 3 different tuners write custom tunes for it, and all of them said they didn't know what Ford was thinking when they made it.

 

[Big Bore]

I have to disagree with "stock shift tuning works about perfect". There are so many different shift strategies across the 9 years the 7.3 powerstroke was produced, and 95% of them were GARBAGE. I have MIF6 and I can attest it was downright horrible. I also had 3 different tuners write custom tunes for it, and all of them said they didn't know what Ford was thinking when they made it.

What were the issues with the shifting? All of the shift strategies I tried, from very well known tuners, were absolutely undriveable in Colorado mountains and towing. Smokey, turbo surge, heat, slam shifting, never hated anything on my truck more than those tunes. The stock shifting solved all of it. Most people probably wouldn't notice the issues if they weren't driving in those conditions. Most people don't understand the conditions either. I also notice a lot of people like the hyper fueled low throttle input tuning.

 

[Addicted4]

At some point no matter turbo, hpop you will run into heat issues due to longer pulse widths to create more power. Just was curious if anyone has ever dyno checked tow programs with any injector not for max hp but clean cool power. I would assume a hybrid 238/80 for example at some point becomes where it can’t sustain no smoke and less than 1200* that power number is what I’m after.

 

[Big Bore]

At some point no matter turbo, hpop you will run into heat issues due to longer pulse widths to create more power. Just was curious if anyone has ever dyno checked tow programs with any injector not for max hp but clean cool power. I would assume a hybrid 238/80 for example at some point becomes where it can’t sustain no smoke and less than 1200* that power number is what I’m after.

Curtis did actually address exactly that in the post I linked. You need to get past the idea that you need a different program for towing. He towed with 250/200's over 10K ft passes in CO staying under 1200, and he wasn't driving slow, using the same tune he used to lay down 450 on PMR's. A tow program doesn't need to be different than a max hp program. I run the max HP tune he wrote for my truck no matter what I'm doing. The only reason to have a seperate tow program is for shifting, and that would only be for downshifting like tow/haul mode does, which is a whole nother ballgame of trans tuning. And If your nozzles are sized correctly you won't need a long PW to empty the injector. IOW, 80% is too small for a 238.

 

[Addicted4]

When I say tow program your stuck on it. I want to know what power injectors I asked about could produce in clean and cool power that’s all.

Correct me if I’m wrong
160/0 280hp
175/30 320hp
238/80 375hp
238/100 385hp
238/200 420hp
Maximum power without smoke or exceeding 1200*

Each injector can make given supporting modifications each have a limit to power vs heat vs smoke

 

[psduser1]

When I say tow program your stuck on it. I want to know what power injectors I asked about could produce in clean and cool power that’s all.

Correct me if I’m wrong
160/0 280hp
175/30 320hp
238/80 375hp
238/100 385hp
238/200 420hp
Maximum power without smoke or exceeding 1200*

Each injector can make given supporting modifications each have a limit to power vs heat vs smoke

If you are looking at max hp for a towing program, that's your issue.
A towing program ought to be stupid simple. Load the trailer, put the truck in gear, and use the throttle to go the speed you want. That's it.


The easiest way to raise the hp required to do that is to shorten pulse width, and inject the necessary amount of fuel in said pulse width. Guess how that happens...
It didn't matter if you're hauling 20k on a trailer, or 200 lbs of passenger ass.

Bigger nozzles make cleaner power, with in the limits of your tuner, and your willingness to work with him.

Different turbos can change spoolup, or topend airflow, but that is a finite number, and no secret.
Lastly, dyno numbers mean ****, in the real world. A well designed 400 hp setup will out tow a poorly designed 500 hp setup all day long. And less issues to boot.:thumbup:

 

[Addicted4]

Maximum useable power that’s the simple question not driving around in a all out power and driving by the gauges and throttle but no matter empty promises loaded a one tune mac clean cool power.

 

[psduser1]

I get it.
Small hybrid, bigger nozzle.
Keeps the hpo requirements down.
I've run a codes for years, with 100 % nozzles, and you can run them with stock oil, but they are definitely better with biggish oil, lol.
A code bottom end, even with stock oil, is great, but mid to top end really sucks, smoke wise. Having said that, a codes do work, but max power is limited.