Pushrod Debate from Beans71086's Thread

[madman1234509]

FYI, Im running RCDs cam and valve springs with stock push rods and my truck is doing just fine with them. With quite a few pretty high rev, high bp runs runs... I think the springs eliminate the potential for valve float which causes contact which causes a bent pushrod... If the price difference between stock and the basic upgrade is huge, Id just stick with stock. Despite what other people rave about on here about push rods.

 

[Dustball8504]

FYI, Im running RCDs cam and valve springs with stock push rods and my truck is doing just fine with them. With quite a few pretty high rev, high bp runs runs... I think the springs eliminate the potential for valve float which causes contact which causes a bent pushrod... If the price difference between stock and the basic upgrade is huge, Id just stick with stock. Despite what other people rave about on here about push rods.

Since I tore it apart I'll weigh in on this. The pushrods weren't bent much at all but enough that they don't roll flat. I'd say you would never even notice it just driving so you really wouldn't know if yours are doing fine.

The two cracked pistons in this motor are also the same cylinder that I pulled 1 bent pushrod each from. They are also not the back 2 cylinders like everyone else seems to break.

 

[Marty]

Since I tore it apart I'll weigh in on this. The pushrods weren't bent much at all but enough that they don't roll flat. I'd say you would never even notice it just driving so you really wouldn't know if yours are doing fine.

The two cracked pistons in this motor are also the same cylinder that I pulled 1 bent pushrod each from. They are also not the back 2 cylinders like everyone else seems to break.

Agree. Unless he took his apart after 40k miles or so......

 

[madman1234509]

Youd have to ask the guys at RCD about it... When I talked to Jared he told me they have only valve springs in quite a few trucks with no problems. Id rather leave a weak push rod in there to bend, then a strong one in there to punch the valve through the piston if they contact. Sometimes it isnt necessary to over build on everything. But at the power you are stating youre going to stop at, it may not be necessary....

 

[Smokyred]

Youd have to ask the guys at RCD about it... When I talked to Jared he told me they have only valve springs in quite a few trucks with no problems. Id rather leave a weak push rod in there to bend, then a strong one in there to punch the valve through the piston if they contact. Sometimes it isnt necessary to over build on everything. But at the power you are stating youre going to stop at, it may not be necessary....

If you have upgraded valvesprings you won't be putting valves to pistons. You will, however, increase the chances of bending stock pushrods because of the increased spring rate they weren't designed to hold.

You bend a pushrod and then grenade a lifter and you won't be skimping next time. I've watched plenty of 7.3 guys do just that. Pushrods are cheap, pulling the heads to replace exploded lifters is not. Do it once, do it right is my .02.

Dave

 

[Dustball8504]

If you have upgraded valvesprings you won't be putting valves to pistons. You will, however, increase the chances of bending stock pushrods because of the increased spring rate they weren't designed to hold.

You bend a pushrod and then grenade a lifter and you won't be skimping next time. I've watched plenty of 7.3 guys do just that. Pushrods are cheap, pulling the heads to replace exploded lifters is not. Do it once, do it right is my .02.
Dave

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Marty]

If you're doing valve springs, do the pushrods.

 

[madman1234509]

You guys are scaring me.....been thinking about a 6.4

You own a 6.0.... Nothing to be afraid of, of a 6.4....



I want to see results.... All this hype of pushrods came about back when elite came out with theres. Talk to Jared at RCD and ask how many cam'd/valvesprings they have installed without push rods, and how many of these trucks are high revving. Not trying to argue but there arent enough people running springs without rods to know. You guys probably know way more than I do, but you cant just say JUST DO IT and not have hard evidence. I beat on my truck pretty hard and have not had one problem in 10-15k miles. Just like the whole ported rails thing. Everyone said just do it, and look how many people, including me, have surging issues.

 

[Matt]

For as cheap of insurance as push rods are, I just don't get why you wouldn't do them.

 

[Dustball8504]

You own a 6.0.... Nothing to be afraid of, of a 6.4....



I want to see results.... All this hype of pushrods came about back when elite came out with theres. Talk to Jared at RCD and ask how many cam'd/valvesprings they have installed without push rods, and how many of these trucks are high revving. Not trying to argue but there arent enough people running springs without rods to know. You guys probably know way more than I do, but you cant just say JUST DO IT and not have hard evidence. I beat on my truck pretty hard and have not had one problem in 10-15k miles. Just like the whole ported rails thing. Everyone said just do it, and look how many people, including me, have surging issues.

Pull yours apart and let us know if they've held up then please. They are DIRT cheap compared to other parts on this. The fuel rails are a "performance" item that I think was a ton of hype, not an item that helps make these trucks stronger like the better pushrods.

For as cheap of insurance as push rods are, I just don't get why you wouldn't do them.

:whs:

 

[madman1234509]

There are plenty of big HP trucks running around with stock valve train....


Why are stock push rods bending?

 

[Dustball8504]

I think it's the tuning personally. Spartan tunes in my experience run higher ebp than IDP or Gearhead tuning. It also doesn't help that this truck rarely comes out of the 310 tune and it gets run hard.

 

[madman1234509]

Any idea if they are mainly exhaust or intake side push rods that are bending? Ive never really heard if anyone has ever noticed.

 

[Jeff@Spartan]

I think it's the tuning personally. Spartan tunes in my experience run higher ebp than IDP or Gearhead tuning. It also doesn't help that this truck rarely comes out of the 310 tune and it gets run hard.

I have 138,200 miles on my truck. It has been tuned for 104,000 miles with the same tuning since day one. Only thing that has changed has been tweaks made to improve the tuning (including back pressure). I run my truck hard as well. I have over 100 track passes on this motor and it has been setup with Elite's 71mm atmosphere for months now. I've seen as high as 57 psi of boost and I would assume 70ish or so psi of back pressure. I haven't ran into any valvetrain issues. If it was the tuning, it would be a common occurrence (and I more than likely would have experienced some issues with the abuse I put my truck through). This isn't the only truck running our tuning that sees abuse on a regular basis and plenty have a lot more mileage.

 

[madman1234509]

Right..... I want to see more proof that push rods are what everyone sums them up to be.... Ive seen too many products over the last two years get hyped up with no evidence of improvement or that its actually needed....

egr kits with wastegates on stock trucks
fuel rails
elites head studs
cams still have no proof that they are worth the money, esp a "stage 1" on a stock truck
push rods
steed speeds
It was just recently said an airdog upgrade on a truck with no injectors doesnt really do anything...


Idk... Its been more than one company that does this.... And everyone buys into it, and are then butt hurt 6 months down the road when someone finally does a test or realizes it had little to no effect or a worse outcome then the setup they had previously...


Like I said.... Ask River City how many trucks theyve put cams and springs in with no push rods. Ask Mike@MPD how much boost and BP he was hitting with his STOCK motor... I can pull up 2 videos right now where he pegs a 100psi boost and BP gauges, I cant pull up anything recalling him ever having motor issues

 

[Strokin6.4]

^^ how about DPC 10'. He blew it up. Stop argueing its a safety precaution good god. Its not like 1k performance mod. Its a part that obviously is weak enough to bend when the truck is stock with a tune. Why build everything around them and leave it stock? That's like building an entire tranny but we'll leave the stock pan on it instead of a deep pan for more fluid.

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[Jeff@Spartan]

That's like building an entire tranny but we'll leave the stock pan on it instead of a deep pan for more fluid.

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That's not a very good analogy. LOL

 

[madman1234509]

Pistons crack with a stock truck with a tune.... You dont see everyone going out and buying coated, machined pistons just because.... All im saying is there is a lot of hype over things that sometimes arent necessarily true. People may bend them with only a tune.... But a lot of people are 6,7,800+ hp with stock ones.... And just because you have valve springs doesnt mean you NEED push rods. Lets seem what happens when you float a valve with stock valve springs with an aftermarket stronger pushrod.... Bet it doesnt just bend like a stock one.

 

[Jhaddox]

That's not a very good analogy. LOL

That's what I was thinking...but I get what you're trying to say...for as cheap as they are, while its apart...it only makes sense

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[Jhaddox]

Lets seem what happens when you float a valve with stock valve springs with an aftermarket stronger pushrod.... Bet it doesnt just bend like a stock one.

Swapping pistons isn't a simple change that's a full out pulling the motor and tearing it apart, swapping push rods is something that can easily be done while its apart for studs (something most people will do, most people aren't out there pulling motors)

And on that most people do push rods and valve springs in one shot

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