Pushrod Debate from Beans71086's Thread

Erikclaw · Sep 22, 2012

Ummmmm OWNED! Great explanation Tadd.

madman1234509 · Sep 22, 2012

Tadd I do like your explanation and the detail you went into. I dont think the whole debate is pointless and I have no hard feelings towards anyone or their point of view, so the comments that have no purpose in this thread are unneccessary. There is no being OWNED, this is a simple discussion, and I simply havent replied to said posts because I havent been on.

White Monster: The more deflection there is the less the valve will open. Are they needed necessarily? No. To get full performance I say yes. The draw back is you move the weak link to the next part in the system.

But one thing im trying to point out is in a stock motor with no valve springs, and stock push rods that will bend, could be less harmful then the stronger chromoly ones that people want to install. If you have a stock valve spring that could have a higher potential for valve float, but have that stronger rod in place, it most likely wont be the rod that bends but something else that breaks, a lot of cases a piston... In that case, I would rather have the stock ones. Im sure I will put push rods in my truck at some point throughout my build, and before I talked to Jared at RCD I was fully intent on the cam/spring/rod combo for my truck. I am not defensive about how I have my truck set up in the least bit, and respect everyone on this forum, its a ton of help and there are a ton of you guys to learn from.

White_monster · Sep 22, 2012

You float a valve and the pushrod looses contact with the rocker and that's when problems start. So to combat that you up the spring pressure which is needed. After you do that the deflection of the stock pushrod is too much so you upgrade the pushrod. The next weak link isn't the lifter thou. The stamped rocker is the next weak link, rather that than a lifter personally till a certain point. This discussion is good but it can be summarized quickly. Every part can be left stock and you will make lots of power, but upgraded parts are built for increased capacities that some stock parts can't hold but not all.

Also since when does valve to piston contact crack a piston? Usually you will bend the valve then drop the valve and destroy the cylinder liner if you run it past bending the valve. Bend down this road lots in cars.

madman1234509 · Sep 22, 2012

I just mentioned punching a hole through the piston because once or twice Ive seen pictures of people with holes in the piston from valve contact, but dropping the valve is a good example as well...

What you said pretty much sums it up and I agree 100%.

Powerstroked162 · Sep 22, 2012

madman1234509 said:
I just mentioned punching a hole through the piston because once or twice Ive seen pictures of people with holes in the piston from valve contact, but dropping the valve is a good example as well...

What you said pretty much sums it up and I agree 100%.

Never seen it, ever. I've seen contact, but never a shattered or "hole" ridden piston from contact. Bent or dropped valves is more common.... Seems like you may be thinking out loud here. A lot

.

Wayne · Sep 24, 2012

This is what valve float looks like on a 6.0 with a stock modified cam and stock valvetrain^^^

White_monster · Sep 24, 2012

Piston looks like its still in one piece but that block is pretty scored by the looks of it. So much for piston cracking from valve float.

jdgleason · Sep 24, 2012

Wayne said:
This is what valve float looks like on a 6.0 with a stock modified cam and stock valvetrain^^^

Lol your poor motor(s).

Jhaddox · Sep 24, 2012

jdgleason said:
Lol your poor motor(s).

Jesus...i thought that was a customers...that was one of yours Wayne?

jdgleason · Sep 24, 2012

Jhaddox said:
Jesus...i thought that was a customers...that was one of yours Wayne?

Wayne has been known to push 6.0s pretty hard... lol

Wayne · Sep 24, 2012

Jhaddox said:
Jesus...i thought that was a customers...that was one of yours Wayne?

That was one of the engines I had in Murphy, the '72 about a year before I started working at Elite ('07 I think), and before I was properly educated on setting up a valve train. I'm sharing my lesson learned the hard way so others won't have to. The block and heads became my new mock-up engine as it would've taken at least .030 to clean up the scoring, and enough other stuff was compromised that I just started over.

Just before the valve let go I did have it breaking the 40's loose at 45 mph though if that's any power reference for you. Here's what the top of the motor looked like at the time.

Jhaddox · Sep 24, 2012

Wayne said:
That was one of the engines I had in Murphy, the '72 about a year before I started working at Elite ('07 I think), and before I was properly educated on setting up a valve train. I'm sharing my lesson learned the hard way so others won't have to. The block and heads became my new mock-up engine as it would've taken at least .030 to clean up the scoring, and enough other stuff was compromised that I just started over.

Just before the valve let go I did have it breaking the 40's loose at 45 mph though if that's any power reference for you. Here's what the top of the motor looked like at the time.

Badass...that was always one of my favorite trucks...and i dont doubt the power it was putting down...thats some serious carnage

Matt · Sep 24, 2012

Off topic, but what is the atmospheric turbo in that set up?

Wayne · Sep 24, 2012

That was an HT3B over a 62/70 combo. The piston never cracked on this one, but the engine before this had a piston break in half pushing the connecting rod through the block due to 70% methanol in the water/meth setup. Cylinder pressure and/or excessive heat is typically what cracks pistons. I don't know why anyone would connect a cam setup to cracking pistons unless it was a totally screwed up setup.

Question for anyone who has removed a stock push rod:

Have any of you seen a set of push rods without at least one of them grooved from wearing against the head gasket? Every one I've torn down has had at least an agressive program, and all or nearly all the push rods had head gasket grooves worn in them from what I suspect is deflection.