Random Stalling
- Thread starter nwpastroker
- Start date
Here ya go: CPS Testing Read the thread all the way thru. At the end they start posting reviews and noticed changes.
You want either the Borg Warner CSS1603 (some may have issue with intermittent wipers many do not) or Delphi HTS101 (You can get it at Advanced auto online but its listed as a Delphi Camber Position Sensor Not a cam position sensor. At least that is how it was when I got mine which made it not come up when you searched cam position sensor or CPS.) I would stay with the Delphi it has a good track record but do some checking on your own on the various forums to decide for yourself before you spend the money.
You want either the Borg Warner CSS1603 (some may have issue with intermittent wipers many do not) or Delphi HTS101 (You can get it at Advanced auto online but its listed as a Delphi Camber Position Sensor Not a cam position sensor. At least that is how it was when I got mine which made it not come up when you searched cam position sensor or CPS.) I would stay with the Delphi it has a good track record but do some checking on your own on the various forums to decide for yourself before you spend the money.
Yep but it seems I have to repeat myself ever few years lol
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
awesome, thanks tarm... i have the grey cps i pulled out of my truck for a backup, and a original black one for a back up that cant be had very easily anymore and a original black in my dually motor... but now that i have two 7.3s and my brother has one and my cousin just down the road has one, its handy to have decent options for replacement.
live life full throttle
live life full throttle
JD3020
Active member
Found the Delphi sensor on Rockauto, $34 shipped.
And this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dfp-hts101?seid=srese1&gclid=CNe3itSu-7YCFfE7Mgod2EkATw
And this http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dfp-hts101?seid=srese1&gclid=CNe3itSu-7YCFfE7Mgod2EkATw
Lee
Member
Did this truck get fixed?
What was the problem?
What was the problem?
nwpastroker
New member
Still have a miss, seems to happen when I'm off the trottle an then come back into it hard, hasn't stalled yet, but I would really like to get this miss taken care of be fore I install the big injectors, kinda waiting to see if it is going to iron out, been messing aroun checking the harness and connections
How many miles on those injectors again? Sure its not just a dieing injector where as the oil gets hot with wear its causing issues. Also older or crappy oil like rotella can cause all kinds of idle issues. But if its the injectors wearing out it would be hard to fix the issue BEFORE you go to the bigger injectors.
If you have ohm'd out the harness off the IDM.
Checked and or replaced the ICP, IPR, CPS
Confirm its not worn or thin oil.
HPOP pressures look good.
Seems you are sort of left with injectors as being a strong possibility as the culprit. Maybe I am wrong though.
If you have ohm'd out the harness off the IDM.
Checked and or replaced the ICP, IPR, CPS
Confirm its not worn or thin oil.
HPOP pressures look good.
Seems you are sort of left with injectors as being a strong possibility as the culprit. Maybe I am wrong though.
nwpastroker
New member
Injectors are unknown as far as age. Oil is delo 400 with 500 miles on it, ICP seems alright, it will hold 3k @wot around 36%. What do I do for ohming out the the harness? Just check for excessive resistance? Or is there a resistor in there somewhere I need to know about? I think the injectors are possible, but with proper ICP would it still start? The no start is what bugs me. Thanks guys
Want to update people on the DElphi CPS from both Amazon and Advanced auto
There is something fishy going on. I ordered a new one again I I damaged the connector on my current on. THought no big deal
Well what I got after paying $40+ was a @#()$%*#$ grey on that is identical in every way to the grey ford OEM one. Night and day from what the one was I had. My guess is either Delphi or some intermediary was short of manf supple and used the grey ones to fill the orders. Total BS I am beyond piss off now.
SO be careful and if you get a grey one return and tell them to send you the correct one cause that ain't it. It is fundamentally a different part as it has different physical and mechanical properties which makes it fraudulent as they are having you pay 2x what the OEM part costs.
Just fopr ****s and grins as I have to install one so this is got be used I will see what perdels I get but I will bet my left nut I am gonna see 2,7,8 Or something similar failing.
There is something fishy going on. I ordered a new one again I I damaged the connector on my current on. THought no big deal
Well what I got after paying $40+ was a @#()$%*#$ grey on that is identical in every way to the grey ford OEM one. Night and day from what the one was I had. My guess is either Delphi or some intermediary was short of manf supple and used the grey ones to fill the orders. Total BS I am beyond piss off now.
SO be careful and if you get a grey one return and tell them to send you the correct one cause that ain't it. It is fundamentally a different part as it has different physical and mechanical properties which makes it fraudulent as they are having you pay 2x what the OEM part costs.
Just fopr ****s and grins as I have to install one so this is got be used I will see what perdels I get but I will bet my left nut I am gonna see 2,7,8 Or something similar failing.
Yes you are checking resistance. By pulling the connector at the IDM it will allow you to check the entire circuit including to the injectors solenoid. Here is link to step by step instructions and what the readings should be. You will need a good multimeter. http://www.gbreman.com/techbulletin_103.html
That is a good oil. IIWY I would run the linked test. Not sure if you have run a buzz and contribution test. Buzz test to check the solenoid will show if they are getting weak. IF the sound it softer and quite different in tone its on its way out.
My guess since it happens in a consistent manner but the symptoms it self are not constant makes me think injector. Wiring is bad you should notice it all the time or very erratically. Oil would cause it to happen as you describe but that checks out good so its very unlikely to be that. HPOP maybe but you said that checks out. Fuel would not make sense as it happens after not during hard throttle. It just sounds like a injector kind of issue to me with the issue showing up hot and after throttle.
Dave @ Swamps (Golfer) is fantastic at trouble shooting these kinds of things. Maybe shoot him a PM and ask him to look at this thread. That guy has seen everything that can go wrong many times over.LOL
nwpastroker
New member
Ill check that all out, thanks tarm
So I went out and picked up a Borg Warner CPS. As the only CPS that followed a strict black only color were the Ford spec'd ones you really can nto go by color anymore. A manf is going to use whatever color they get the best deal on at the time of the run. Grey black purple yellow whatever.
IMO the first thing to check on any CPS you purchase is the size of the magnet housing. If it has a step in or recess then its not what you want. If it has a full size body up thru the end that is best. Next test your current one and find the largest thing it can pick up. Use that as the test of strength. IF the one you have is no stepped down and can pick up something heavier thats a good sign.
\no real way to test electronics so you have to go by others reports but at least this gets you closer.
The BWD I just picked up is night and day stronger and larger than the newer ford ones (non black) But that BWD is grey in color so color again is not the test to use anymore unless its to identify the original ford ones and even then it has to have that large case size.
We will see how it does. The only bad report with these was from electric interference. caused by some wiper motors. Will test that in my case. Delphi did not have these issues but IMO now you have to check them to make sure you are getting the one with the large magnet housing.
IMO the first thing to check on any CPS you purchase is the size of the magnet housing. If it has a step in or recess then its not what you want. If it has a full size body up thru the end that is best. Next test your current one and find the largest thing it can pick up. Use that as the test of strength. IF the one you have is no stepped down and can pick up something heavier thats a good sign.
\no real way to test electronics so you have to go by others reports but at least this gets you closer.
The BWD I just picked up is night and day stronger and larger than the newer ford ones (non black) But that BWD is grey in color so color again is not the test to use anymore unless its to identify the original ford ones and even then it has to have that large case size.
We will see how it does. The only bad report with these was from electric interference. caused by some wiper motors. Will test that in my case. Delphi did not have these issues but IMO now you have to check them to make sure you are getting the one with the large magnet housing.
Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about.
You see this same size difference when you compare a original old Ford/IH black CPS to any of the new OEM ones from both companies.
The smaller one is straight from Ford as part of the recall. What many call the grey. The one next to it is a Borg Warner BWD CSS1603
(BWD CSS1603 purchased from Advanced Auto with online discount TRT30 for $18 and change. That code is good for 30% off any order of parts. I order online for in store pickup. No shipping cost still get the online discount and pick it up immediately from whatever local store has it in stock that I choose.)
Sorry it was such a grainy pic. Did not have my camera with me. Another thing which maybe hard to noticed but has been shown thru breaking apart the units. If you look at the end where you see the radius edge. You will notice the Ford unit on the left has a thicker radius size. This is all solid plastic between the magnet and outside of the housing. The right BWD is about half the thickness very thin. Thus not only is the magnet stronger but it does not have to go thru more plastic and that also puts it that much closer to the actual gear pickups.
These are the big differences you see between the good and poorly working sensors. While in some engines they may not appear to make any difference in the engines where they do it can be quite dramatic. Anywhere from 1-3+ mpg has been documented. Idle quality and throttle crispness improvements. Going from failures 2 or more cylinder failures on Contribution/Perdels testing to none. So I am not per say recommending any specific brand or model of CPS as it seems a Manf can nd will change from time to time. What I am recommending is to check physical characteristics, mentioned above, of them before you purchase or use them to help find the one that will offer the better performance. Color again no longer has any standing what so ever that I can tell in the aftermarket of these sensors.
This BWD happens to be what I would call a charcoal or darker grey with the ford being a lighter grey by about 2 shades.
I add Dielectric grease into the connector during install as IMO it may prevent issues in wet weather or water crossings. I have noticed I have had some past intermittent power losses in heavy rain or after going thru water that I traced back to water getting into the sensor connector on a couple vehicles. One my own and a friends.
My explanations are very basic trying to make it simple there is much more detail of the differences inside the sensors that have effects on the performance. Credit to one person that goes by Van_350SD on TDS forum for taking the time to document his break down and measurement of various sensors. Link I posted earlier and here again. His first post post has a ton of good info as do later posts in that thread: CPS thread
You see this same size difference when you compare a original old Ford/IH black CPS to any of the new OEM ones from both companies.
The smaller one is straight from Ford as part of the recall. What many call the grey. The one next to it is a Borg Warner BWD CSS1603
(BWD CSS1603 purchased from Advanced Auto with online discount TRT30 for $18 and change. That code is good for 30% off any order of parts. I order online for in store pickup. No shipping cost still get the online discount and pick it up immediately from whatever local store has it in stock that I choose.)
Sorry it was such a grainy pic. Did not have my camera with me. Another thing which maybe hard to noticed but has been shown thru breaking apart the units. If you look at the end where you see the radius edge. You will notice the Ford unit on the left has a thicker radius size. This is all solid plastic between the magnet and outside of the housing. The right BWD is about half the thickness very thin. Thus not only is the magnet stronger but it does not have to go thru more plastic and that also puts it that much closer to the actual gear pickups.
These are the big differences you see between the good and poorly working sensors. While in some engines they may not appear to make any difference in the engines where they do it can be quite dramatic. Anywhere from 1-3+ mpg has been documented. Idle quality and throttle crispness improvements. Going from failures 2 or more cylinder failures on Contribution/Perdels testing to none. So I am not per say recommending any specific brand or model of CPS as it seems a Manf can nd will change from time to time. What I am recommending is to check physical characteristics, mentioned above, of them before you purchase or use them to help find the one that will offer the better performance. Color again no longer has any standing what so ever that I can tell in the aftermarket of these sensors.
This BWD happens to be what I would call a charcoal or darker grey with the ford being a lighter grey by about 2 shades.
I add Dielectric grease into the connector during install as IMO it may prevent issues in wet weather or water crossings. I have noticed I have had some past intermittent power losses in heavy rain or after going thru water that I traced back to water getting into the sensor connector on a couple vehicles. One my own and a friends.
My explanations are very basic trying to make it simple there is much more detail of the differences inside the sensors that have effects on the performance. Credit to one person that goes by Van_350SD on TDS forum for taking the time to document his break down and measurement of various sensors. Link I posted earlier and here again. His first post post has a ton of good info as do later posts in that thread: CPS thread
Last edited:
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
tarm is on it, glad your back around sir!!
live life full throttle
live life full throttle
The one thing that is what really made me understand just how bad the change in design was:
The CPS new or old are all very close to the same OAL from tip to where it mates to the front cover. So we call than equal. But now all the narrow tips ones I have send have about full 0.25" of plastic on the tip before you get to the actual hall sensor ( what I call magnet above, sorry was trying to make it simple) Now the spec for proper shimming off set of a senors according to ford IIRC is 0.25"-0.30". This is suppose to be from the tip of the CPS to the gear. Well that is based off a sensor ( the original) that has almost no plastic covering the sensor. Its so thin you can see the impression of the hall sensor doughnut in the plastic if you tilt it in the light(ghost image). So I will call this basically zero as well. That means that for these CPS with the narrowed ends to have an actual off set of 0.25" they would actually have to be physically touching the cam gear with the plastic end. As most people are not going to spend $$290-$325 for the CPS micrometer jig we just put them in without any shimming at all. So they just hope its good but this can certainly be the reason you see variations in why some engine seem OK with greys and others do not. It very well may be those ones that are OK they are just barely no hitting the gear. The other thing is the offset. A number of the sensors with narrow tips cut open relieved the hall sensor was up to 1/8" off set. Someone worked that out and IIRC could work out to as much as 2.4 degrees of offset in time. That would certainly have an effect I would think. So with variations in engines from wear and tolerances and the same in these narrow tip sensors it no wonder things are all over the place.
These things are the pace maker of the engine. With it accurate info from the CPS nothing from fueling to RPM and piston position is being computed accurately. Well anyways that my opinion on it.
the wiper issue some have had seems to be from interference electric trash the wiper motor is needing out. Ford even did a TPS on it. It uses the same ground. Cut the ground from the Wiper and rewire and ground it somewhere else. I would think that would fix the issue.
Totally butchered this thread, sorry NWPAStroker. My apologies, I am done side tracking.
The CPS new or old are all very close to the same OAL from tip to where it mates to the front cover. So we call than equal. But now all the narrow tips ones I have send have about full 0.25" of plastic on the tip before you get to the actual hall sensor ( what I call magnet above, sorry was trying to make it simple) Now the spec for proper shimming off set of a senors according to ford IIRC is 0.25"-0.30". This is suppose to be from the tip of the CPS to the gear. Well that is based off a sensor ( the original) that has almost no plastic covering the sensor. Its so thin you can see the impression of the hall sensor doughnut in the plastic if you tilt it in the light(ghost image). So I will call this basically zero as well. That means that for these CPS with the narrowed ends to have an actual off set of 0.25" they would actually have to be physically touching the cam gear with the plastic end. As most people are not going to spend $$290-$325 for the CPS micrometer jig we just put them in without any shimming at all. So they just hope its good but this can certainly be the reason you see variations in why some engine seem OK with greys and others do not. It very well may be those ones that are OK they are just barely no hitting the gear. The other thing is the offset. A number of the sensors with narrow tips cut open relieved the hall sensor was up to 1/8" off set. Someone worked that out and IIRC could work out to as much as 2.4 degrees of offset in time. That would certainly have an effect I would think. So with variations in engines from wear and tolerances and the same in these narrow tip sensors it no wonder things are all over the place.
These things are the pace maker of the engine. With it accurate info from the CPS nothing from fueling to RPM and piston position is being computed accurately. Well anyways that my opinion on it.
the wiper issue some have had seems to be from interference electric trash the wiper motor is needing out. Ford even did a TPS on it. It uses the same ground. Cut the ground from the Wiper and rewire and ground it somewhere else. I would think that would fix the issue.
Totally butchered this thread, sorry NWPAStroker. My apologies, I am done side tracking.
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
tarm, maybe a good idea to have a mod take all the cps info and move it into its own thread, maybe even a sticky for easy access... good info to know and good read from tds.
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