Real Tuning

[bigrpowr]

Making changes to the tune isn't the problem. The issue with both the '17 Fords and the L5P is the digital signature the ECM expects to receive after a flash to say that it is a OEM approved calibration. If you've ever jailbroken an iPhone it's a similar concept. Software code is loaded through a "backdoor" to switch off that security check. That's what has been going on with the 4th gen Cummins for years via the 3 pin data link under the hood. New dodge gas stuff has to have the ECM unlocked by opening the case and flashing, and then it's open season. Unfortunately, on the new Ford and GM, this option is gone, or no one has figured out how to do it yet.

The guys at EFILive wrote up an article on the L5P basically saying they need the key from GM to flash. However, even if someone gave them that key they wouldn't touch it with a 100 ft pole because GM would sue them for all sorts of things.

for the most part yes. L5P uses an algorhithm , ford uses very complex ID blocks. the L5P will be much tougher to crack .

 

[sootie]

Perhaps those changes arrived a bit sooner with regs, but do you not think they would have come anyway? More efficient burn = increased power and efficiency. Few of us like blowing crap loads of friggin smoke, and smoke is essentially unburned fuel, correct? Didn't the Duramax arrive as a fairly quiet engine before 2003? I walked past one and didn't realize it was a diesel until I smelled the exhaust at a time when you could hear a Cummins a half mile away and it'd rattle the fillings out of your teeth shutting down. The Cummins may still have the low st power ratings, but it doesn't seem to be hurting their sales around here much...it's also still in the ball park. Not like they're trying to compete with GM and Ford with the old 215 hp 12 valve engine.

I'm not talking about blowing smoke, I'm taking about manufacturers meeting fresh emission standards . No amount of diesel aftermarket has any sway over what design changes are made with the engine.

Your last sentence concretes my point, it's not the consumer that is driving the changes.

 

[JRLott]

Without demand, the regs would have been the death of the oil burners. Demand and competition is why the 12 valve is no longer a viable commodity as a new truck engine. The market ended its viability long before emissions came into the picture. Demand and competition drove the three to increase HP and torque in the chase for #1. Smoke is the reason for the regs. The market would have eventually demanded less smoke and efficiency. I did say before, regs may have forced the changes sooner, but the changes would have come. More efficient burn, less smoke, more power are all present regardless of whether Thor's cock is clogging up the exhaust.

Anyway, back to the discussion. The free market discussion is irrelevant since regs skewed the path...one way or the other.

 

[Mts678]

So who's gunna have some tunes soon? ��

 

[bigrpowr]

So who's gunna have some tunes soon? ��

nothing thru the OBD anytime soon, but we tested ECM flashes today and they are promising. just the basic infantile issues at this point to iron out.

 

[lincolnlocker]

nothing thru the OBD anytime soon, but we tested ECM flashes today and they are promising. just the basic infantile issues at this point to iron out.

once they are ironed out, does one need to pull their ecm to send in and have a tune flashed to it or is there such a thing as a core or swap? i guess the ecm would be vin and truck specific though?

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[Black AOD]

once they are ironed out, does one need to pull their ecm to send in and have a tune flashed to it or is there such a thing as a core or swap? i guess the ecm would be vin and truck specific though?

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PCM's can be reflashed and you can enter a new VIN manually. Requires Ford IDS. You can do that on 08-16 trucks

However, idk if that's still the same for 17' Fords.

 

[superpsd]

If nobody has the ability to flash these then how are they flashing the Mexitune? Also how is KEM capable of flashing via X4? +55/172 Tow tune but no transmission tuning?

 

[Floorboard79]

Thank you
Elephant in room

 

[PAYNE5757]

If nobody has the ability to flash these then how are they flashing the Mexitune? Also how is KEM capable of flashing via X4? +55/172 Tow tune but no transmission tuning?

Also curious about the difference.

 

[Rubenk]

The biggest killer to these types of issues is that anyone capable of the work isnt a g3arhead, or even interested in the automotive aftermarket. I'd bet you a dollar that it actually isnt all that complicated compared to other types of systems security out there. We just dont have the allure for the more skilled folks to take a swing at it.

 

[woodsman]

That's not true at all, can't say who I work for, but we've been working on locking down our production variant ECU's (yes we have physically different production vs development ecu's) so that aside from the pre-encrypted software that comes from a back office computer system, we can't even see or touch what's on our own trucks. If somehow there were a way to edit the parameters or flash a new completely new software onto the controllers, it still requires having access to the original software that Ford wrote and I guarantee that's proprietary as hell. To get those requires someone at Ford illegally leak those documents as well as the software models for the engine and transmission. To further complicate matters, each individual ECU will broadcast via CAN what it's software version and calibration ID is, and it must match the expected version and ID that are programmed onto other controllers or the whole system will lock itself up. When Ford programs either a Mexi file or USA file, they update EVERY ecu with all of this info to make it match. That's why the Mexi flash works. It's encrypted probably and the tuners can't see what it is, but they can flash it because it is essentially a factory tune.

 

[lincolnlocker]

so it isn't as simple as copying the mexi tune and adjusting those perameters and expecting it to work cuz it cant take the changes?

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[Luke@MillerPerformance]

That's not true at all, can't say who I work for, but we've been working on locking down our production variant ECU's (yes we have physically different production vs development ecu's) so that aside from the pre-encrypted software that comes from a back office computer system, we can't even see or touch what's on our own trucks. If somehow there were a way to edit the parameters or flash a new completely new software onto the controllers, it still requires having access to the original software that Ford wrote and I guarantee that's proprietary as hell. To get those requires someone at Ford illegally leak those documents as well as the software models for the engine and transmission. To further complicate matters, each individual ECU will broadcast via CAN what it's software version and calibration ID is, and it must match the expected version and ID that are programmed onto other controllers or the whole system will lock itself up. When Ford programs either a Mexi file or USA file, they update EVERY ecu with all of this info to make it match. That's why the Mexi flash works. It's encrypted probably and the tuners can't see what it is, but they can flash it because it is essentially a factory tune.

This is not correct. The data of the tune itself is not encrypted at all. That's how myself and plenty of other people have a copy of the file that can be edited with the correct software. Just because it cannot be tuned via OBD port doesn't mean it can't be tuned. Just means it not as easy to distribute.

 

[superpsd]

That would make sense if it was just the Mexitune however KEM is claiming large gains so far with the Dyno flashing thru the OBD port?

 

[Floorboard79]

secret squirrel stuff

 

[Mts678]

secret squirrel stuff

The statement that makes the most sense in this thread lol

 

[superpsd]

Found a picture of a 2017 powerstroke tuner

 

[woodsman]

This is not correct. The data of the tune itself is not encrypted at all. That's how myself and plenty of other people have a copy of the file that can be edited with the correct software. Just because it cannot be tuned via OBD port doesn't mean it can't be tuned. Just means it not as easy to distribute.

I stand corrected, I know that for MY2018 the company that I work for is moving to an encrypted flash. Glad to hear that Ford hasn't taken that step yet. :ford:

 

[Luke@MillerPerformance]

I stand corrected, I know that for MY2018 the company that I work for is moving to an encrypted flash. Glad to hear that Ford hasn't taken that step yet. :ford:

I would assume you work for a heavy equipment/tractor manufacture. Those guys get really upset when you uprate a tractor and they lose out on the $1000 a horsepower they normally get.