Responsive Turbo/compounds Thoughts

Big Bore · May 29, 2012

Hotrodtractor said:
Sorry to disappoint?

It's really my fault, I need to make a post/thread with a couple questions.

Seriously - what about a VGT wouldn't be great for lowering EGTs and working well at altitude?

Probably nothing. Except a lot more work and expense than what I'm planning lol.

Again - I just wanted to play a little - I've got this sitting here - what can we do with it scenario. All too often these forums get filled with the same old crap over and over again - so I decided to add some different crap. :toast:

I'm sure it's a great idea and the person who does it and makes it work right is going to be a trend setter for sure.

Powerstroked162 · May 29, 2012

Hotrodtractor said:
Sorry to disappoint?

Seriously - what about a VGT wouldn't be great for lowering EGTs and working well at altitude?

Again - I just wanted to play a little - I've got this sitting here - what can we do with it scenario. All too often these forums get filled with the same old crap over and over again - so I decided to add some different crap. :toast:

It's not "these forums" it's just 7.3 stuff. VGT turbo would be awesome but it's gonna take a good understanding of the "how" that most people aren't gonna have or even have access too. I'd love to see you take this on because I don't think there is anybody more qualified for such a hair brain idea lol. The supercab truck would be a good testing platform

oke:

Hotrodtractor · May 29, 2012

Powerstroked162 said:
It's not "these forums" it's just 7.3 stuff. VGT turbo would be awesome but it's gonna take a good understanding of the "how" that most people aren't gonna have or even have access too. I'd love to see you take this on because I don't think there is anybody more qualified for such a hair brain idea lol. The supercab truck would be a good testing platform oke:

For clarification - when I said "these forums" - I meant ALL forums - not just this site - after some things have been around for a while, very few times is anything new introduced. Several of us have been around long enough to know that the 7.3 stuff is just the same regurgitated stuff day in and day out - and the new things like the 6.4 area tend to stay a little more fresh as more and more people modify them and try things that haven't been done on that platform before.

I also agree that its going to take someone that is willing to dive in and get the control aspect of this handled - no matter if its a purchased stand alone controller, piggy backed on an existing controller (PCS), mechanically controlled via a wastegate diaphragm (or an air cylinder - seen that done too), or just a push pull cable run into the cab for the driver to do whatever he wants (not a good idea! LOL ). But there are also lots of people that are capable - and all they need is the seed to be planted. Or perhaps this gives them another idea to go look at and try.

It would be tempting to do this on the supercab truck for sure..... but I have other projects to finish before I get that back into a position to talk about that. :toast:

Hotrodtractor · May 29, 2012

Big Bore said:
It's really my fault, I need to make a post/thread with a couple questions.

Probably nothing. Except a lot more work and expense than what I'm planning lol.

If they are questions related to this - ask them here - then its all in one spot.

Yes - its a lot more work than just bolting on a turbo - but I honestly think the payback would be there - especially for someone fighting issues at altitude like you are. I would start with an off the shelf used LLY turbo - probably $400 or less if you shop around. The rest is all fabrication and figuring out controls.

Big Bore · May 29, 2012

Hotrodtractor said:
The rest is all fabrication and figuring out controls.

I think before I ever started slamming my head against that wall, I would just buy a 6.0 (OMG did I just say that!!!!).

Will that turbo mount to a T4? I know you mentioned something earlier. It will just be in a different location?

I'm wondering if even a single VGT wouldn't make a huge difference. Maybe that's the next evolution, a VGT kit for 7.3's?

neverkickn · May 29, 2012

So i seem to remember someone adapting a 6.0 charger to work on a 7.3. Would a stock 6.0 charger be a bad match for this setup?

Hotrodtractor · May 29, 2012

Big Bore said:
I think before I ever started slamming my head against that wall, I would just buy a 6.0 (OMG did I just say that!!!!).

Will that turbo mount to a T4? I know you mentioned something earlier. It will just be in a different location?

I'm wondering if even a single VGT wouldn't make a huge difference. Maybe that's the next evolution, a VGT kit for 7.3's?

The turbo pictured has an integrated mount - you would have to have an adapter plate machined that would allow it to bolt to a 7.3 because the bolt patterns are different - and you would have to make some provisions for the oil feed and drain - and add in some coolant lines for the cooled center section.

I think a single VGT would make a difference.

neverkickn said:
So i seem to remember someone adapting a 6.0 charger to work on a 7.3. Would a stock 6.0 charger be a bad match for this setup?

The Dmax turbos have proven to be reliable - plus many more options for "drop in" upgrades. There are guys that are using the Dmax turbo wheels for upgrading the 6.0 turbos. If I was to consider actually doing this - I would weigh all my options - but would probably go with either a Dmax turbo or a turbo with a standard flange like a T3 or a T4, so probably not a 6.0 turbo.

morefuel · May 29, 2012

How are the vanes controlled. To me it seems like a person could possibly use the plug for the ebpv and have factory pcm control it.

TurboM700 · May 29, 2012

How is the VGT controlled on them currently?

Oil pressure and a PWM valve to open or close the vanes? Like a 6.0l?

At any rate it wouldnt be that hard to control it, a PLC with 2-3 sensor as inputs and a simple graph set-up based on inputs. I would be willing to bet it doesnt even have to me progressive to be drive abile.

You could have it stay "closed" till x RPMs then open some up to x RPMS and full open after that.

Mike

Big Bore · May 29, 2012

morefuel said:
How are the vanes controlled. To me it seems like a person could possibly use the plug for the ebpv and have factory pcm control it.

Wouldn't it be a kick if that were possible, and the EBPV wiring could be used to actuate it? Seems to easy LOL

TurboM700 · May 29, 2012

I dont think the EBPV is PWM regulated. Its either on or off. Let just say it is PWM I'm not sure what kind of control the tuners out there have on the valve. Can you build a table off that EBPV output based on inputs.

It really wouldnt be that diffcult to build a control that has inputs to control it. The diffcult part is marketing it and making it adjustable to the end user.

vanderchevy18 · May 29, 2012

OK. I really like the idea, but how much more responsive is it than a well tuned compound setup with say an s366 and s480?

Big Bore · May 29, 2012

Hotrodtractor said:
Also - I should add that the VGT is only 1/2" taller than the S400 turbo in the pics - and that it could end up close to the same height if a true mounting plate was built and not a 2x6 to sit on. LOL

Oh Jake!!!!! Hey we got a mission for you bud.

budro · May 29, 2012

neverkickn said:
So i seem to remember someone adapting a 6.0 charger to work on a 7.3. Would a stock 6.0 charger be a bad match for this setup?

Now that you mention it, I do remember this being done in say 2004 or 2005?..... and reading a thread on TDS marked with that classic flaming bonfire thread marker. I'm sure it was also filled with the always classic smoking smiley!

TrailerHauler · May 29, 2012

How does an HE351 compare to the garrett off of a duramax? It seems if it were comparable and fit in the valley, you could find yourself a t4i mount, bolt it in, then you would only need to find a good method for controlling the charger. The intake for that wouldn't get in the way of the stock plenums like the duramax turbo either.

907DAVE · May 29, 2012

TurboM700 said:
I dont think the EBPV is PWM regulated. Its either on or off. Let just say it is PWM I'm not sure what kind of control the tuners out there have on the valve. Can you build a table off that EBPV output based on inputs.

It is, and there is lots of control!

I think this is the solution!!!

Vader's Fury · May 29, 2012

Subbing.......

Big Bore · May 29, 2012

Backpressure desired, duty cycle desired. Hmmmm.

Is there a new acronym in there somewhere?

Big Bore · May 29, 2012

907DAVE said:
It is, and there is lots of control!

I think this is the solution!!!

I guess the next question is how much voltage is required for the VGT actuator, and can the pcm supply it through the ebpv circuit.

PowerstrokeJunkie · May 29, 2012

Does anyone know what the "instantaneous a/r" (if you will..) of a VGT turbine when in the closed (quick spool) position is? The stock 6.0's turbo have .9a/r stamped on them, and i know the vanes cycling doesnt do anything to change the size of the housing, just changed the angle of attack the gasses take on the turbine wheel. But for arguments sake (and since i've always wanted to know), what equivalent turbine A/R does a VGT act like when closed, something like a .30 or .40a/r? Does what i said above even make sense LOL