so hrt

Chvyrkr

Active member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,205
Reaction score
1
CR doesn't "keep up" with p-pumps.

I'm hoping to see Jason's injectors get close to CR capability though!
 

Casserly

New member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
I keep checking to see if I have a package coming in from Mingo ever since I got the text about them clearing customs. Hook a brother up.
 

Hotrodtractor

Moderator
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
4,934
Reaction score
14
Location
Mingo, Ohio
I keep checking to see if I have a package coming in from Mingo ever since I got the text about them clearing customs. Hook a brother up.

Its been a chitty week for me buddy! You won't get a box until late next week. Fire me if you don't like it! LOL Seriously I need to call you for a package to come back this way too...
 

Smokyred

New member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
437
Reaction score
0
Location
Wellington, OH
Is that what you've been up to this past winter Jason? I've been a little out of the loop the past six months, seems like everyone has something new going!

Dave
 

Hotrodtractor

Moderator
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
4,934
Reaction score
14
Location
Mingo, Ohio
Is that what you've been up to this past winter Jason? I've been a little out of the loop the past six months, seems like everyone has something new going!

Dave

These production quality pieces have been in the works for a VERY long time. After some prototype work to get a better idea of where I wanted to end up - I started shopping for a machine shop with the capabilities to do what I was asking - once I found one and found an guy willing to work with me the order was placed (July 2009!) - in an effort to keep costs down the parts were to be run with "similar" parts to reduce setups, reduce costs on coatings, etc... the turn down in the economy hit everyone - including the jobs that were "similar" to mine - so it took longer than expected to get a high quality "low" cost part.

To give you an idea on how tight these things are - these are setup on a 50 millionths +/- 10 millionths slip fit. That is 0.000050" +/- 0.000010" slip fit. It was several thousands of dollars worth of air gauging tools to add on to a $$$$$$$ air gauge machine just to be able to accurately measure and evaluate these parts. At the end of the day these are the highest quality components that I feel can be made by anyone. Before the final fitment of the parts I sent them to Europe to receive the same coating that is found on some of the most advanced plunger and barrel setups in the high end billet injection pumps being used in competition.
 

02BigD

New member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
3,255
Reaction score
0
Location
Coastal NC
To be north of 1000, wouldn't it require something like 520 in 2ms just to meet that requirement?
 

Hotrodtractor

Moderator
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
4,934
Reaction score
14
Location
Mingo, Ohio
To be north of 1000, wouldn't it require something like 520 in 2ms just to meet that requirement?

The quantity of the injection event depends heavily on the quality of the injection event - rest assured I have been working on both, but its harder to quantify the quality with the tools and equipment we have at our disposal short of installing them and running them. 7.3 PSDs tend to float around that 2-2.5HP/cc of fuel injected for the most part - common rail motors have been getting up into the 3.0-3.3 or so range. So contrary to most people's opinions its not that the common rail injectors have so much more fuel at their disposal, its just that they do it more efficiently. Now these numbers are pretty fast and loose and are starting to get into some of the stuff that I want to cover in the near future.
 

TrailerHauler

Active member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,487
Reaction score
0
Location
Michigan
Very interesting Jason, looking forward to seeing the forward progress. I know it's been in the works for awhile.

The comparison thread will also be very informative and helpful to many imo.
 

vanderchevy18

New member
Joined
May 19, 2011
Messages
2,024
Reaction score
0
Location
Benton, Ks.
So here's my question. Since these are so high quality and awesome, will the price of JUST these injectors rival or exceed the price of p-pumping or common railing a 7.3? Don't get me wrong, I know you have to pay to play, and I know that it costs big money for any engine in any ideration to compete these days. I am just wondering if I should hold my breath on being able to afford something like this 10 years from now, short of winning the lottery.


I hope I didn't offend anyone. I am sure the questions are entirely too forward this early in the development of these. I was just wondering what the projected demographic is. Is this for someone building a truck to compete in the local pulls and races as a hobby, or is it strictly something aimed at the "professional" competitor. They sound incredible. You do amazing work and I am thankful we have people willing to foot the bill to develop and produce products to further our socalled dead platforms. Good luck!
 

Charles

Well-known member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
2,729
Reaction score
47
Nice to see that you've taken steps to ensure durability out of the P&B sets. Now just imagine some dude losing fuel pressure and ruining 8 of them all at once...

:eek:



So what's the plan on making up for the lost hydraulic ratio? Shifting the entire ICP operating range with greater poppet spring pre-load?
 

Hotrodtractor

Moderator
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
4,934
Reaction score
14
Location
Mingo, Ohio
So here's my question. Since these are so high quality and awesome, will the price of JUST these injectors rival or exceed the price of p-pumping or common railing a 7.3? Don't get me wrong, I know you have to pay to play, and I know that it costs big money for any engine in any ideration to compete these days. I am just wondering if I should hold my breath on being able to afford something like this 10 years from now, short of winning the lottery.


I hope I didn't offend anyone. I am sure the questions are entirely too forward this early in the development of these. I was just wondering what the projected demographic is. Is this for someone building a truck to compete in the local pulls and races as a hobby, or is it strictly something aimed at the "professional" competitor. They sound incredible. You do amazing work and I am thankful we have people willing to foot the bill to develop and produce products to further our socalled dead platforms. Good luck!

Those are fair questions - and I am only prepared to answer them vaguely at this point for multiple reasons that I won't get into.

As it stands these are being built and developed initially for competition rigs - that makes the initial demographic very small - like 6 trucks you could probably put names to if you wanted to try (not that any arrangement or agreement exists with any of those names that you can think of - and obviously I'm ultimately building these for me and my goals). Beyond that as I progress forward I want to port this more into the mainstream injector sales.

The cost of something like this will be significantly shy of the bare minimum for a mechanical or CR conversion - but the usage of these might also require certain tweaks or changes to the supporting mods normally required for a set of injectors.

I hope that helps clarify some - while not giving direct concrete answers - this is still my little science experiment. As Nate so eloquently put it - I will release info as I see fit, when I see fit, but I've talked about these things for so long that I wanted to show that the long delays and hype are producing results.

The scary thing is - these are not all that wild... :D

Nice to see that you've taken steps to ensure durability out of the P&B sets. Now just imagine some dude losing fuel pressure and ruining 8 of them all at once...

:eek:



So what's the plan on making up for the lost hydraulic ratio? Shifting the entire ICP operating range with greater poppet spring pre-load?

When someone loses fuel pressure and ruins a whole set of 8... I will probably cry like a little school girl for a while.... then put on my big boy panties and deal with the issue (with possible school girl like outbursts occasionally).

These are not that wild, just wild enough - in fact they could be used initially without any compensation in a competition rig because at the high end of the spectrum the reduction in pressure loss through the injector should not only compensate is should show an improvement in actual pressure at the tip (as evidence by a higher flow rate through the same tip at the same ICP and PW).

Ultimately I will break out the parts and pieces that I originally broke Nate's bench with as it melted out parts and spilled oil all over the floor as we went well passed what is known as "extreme ICP" in some circles. Yeah... sorry about that again Nate... ready to do it again? LOL
 

Chris

New member
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
277
Reaction score
0
Location
San Antonio, TX
I love that youre going for quality just as much as quantity. to be competitive fuel only or without 10 bottles of nitrous a pass, its going to be important.

The point you make about the cr hp per cc vs the 7.3 is a good one. look at the power output of a 6.0 vs a 7.3 w/ the same cc fuel quantity and same size turbo.
 

Tom S

Moderator
Joined
May 20, 2011
Messages
3,365
Reaction score
1
Made me learn something new looking up air gauge Jason. Cool thread
 
Top