HaysKSFirefighter
New member
I was meaning half fill the block that's in it right now, use the fill to fill in the hole thats at your number 2 piston area.
The 600hp saga continues
- Thread starter vanderchevy18
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Motor is out on stand.What part is welded on the cam gear? Procedure?
Hotrodtractor
Moderator
You weld the camshaft to the cam gear to keep the cam gear from walking off the end of it because it is a press fit that is not strong enough for a hard running motor due to the way the gears are cut.
Remove camshaft. Have a competent welder TIG or MIG into place on the front side of the gear. It would be wide to make sure that your camshaft end play is in spec before welding.
vanderchevy18
New member
Why can't you just pull the front cover and weld it right there?
Hotrodtractor
Moderator
Because there is no way I would weld the gear to the cam without inspecting the cam for wear first - plus I've never just pulled the cover off a motor to weld a cam gear - if your not refreshing the motor or anything then I probably wouldn't take the time to weld it.
PowerstrokeJunkie
Active member
I had a project last year putting a new cam and welding a gear on a customer's of mine truck. His gear walked out i recall .100" and was chewing up cam sensors. It's very important to weld the gear especially in performance applications. They coulda made the gears cut to PRESS the gear on tighter but i guess the engineers didnt think of that?
vanderchevy18
New member
Come on guys. What do I do? I dont want to dip into the race truck fund, but i also hate to put this motor back in stock. Give me some ideas. If i spend money on it i would like to keep it under $1,500 worth of mods. $250 of that going to head gaskets since the heads are off the motor. I'll have an open bay in the shop and hopefully have the crew cab in for engine removal by the end of next week. I would like to have all my parts ordered and on their way by then.
No offense, but only suggestions from guys who have been or are in the same position and guys who build 7.3's or know how to build them. Please and thank you!
No offense, but only suggestions from guys who have been or are in the same position and guys who build 7.3's or know how to build them. Please and thank you!
bigaF250
New member
I personally would drop a stock block back in it and run your current mods. Have your tuning turned down to a reliable level and leave it. I'm not sure on how well your wife can judge power but I know my ol lady would know if a truck had 500HP or 1000HP. So to tell the difference of 50-75 HP and be reliable or somewhat reliable wouldn't matter. Just my opinion. Then that keeps your cost down and allows for the race truck.
Lets look at what is a priority item and then go from there:
That's a hard one because IMO there is a point where it just does not make sense to stop and another not to go beyond.
You need:
block filler that's $75
Injector o-rings set from IH $75
OEM head gasket set $250
Here is what I would given that. I am just thinking out loud hear: You already have the replacement engine correct? Why not pick up one of Matt's cams. That is a great addition at the level you are at with air and fuel. Also a good enough reason to pull the front cover IMO. Then weld the cam gear on. Take what is left maybe $600, since you have the heads off already, have the heads just lightly worked. Little bowl work and a polish. This is a street truck. Given that IMO for head flow you should not be looking as much trying to increase the volume of flow as much as trying to increase the flow velocity and how smooth if flows.
The fill will help with keeping things stiff and help hold those torque levels. The cam and head work will hopefully work with some synergy in their effects. See how much timing you are really seeing from your tunes. IMO you want the very least amount of SOI timing it takes to meet your power goal and to meet it at the highest RPM peak with the broadest power band. The cam and head work should help there. That will allow lower TQ peaks for the same amount of power which means less CP. The other thing get it live tuned and see about maybe having it logged with a CP tester so you can really be sure of timing and peaks of the combustion events you are looking at as well as cylinder to cylinder balance.
Hopefully all of this will allow you to keep a 600 HP ceiling but lower the actual TQ peak by being able to extend it. All of this together should give you a really good chance of keeping this thing together yet enjoy all the power it produces.
Anyways just voicing some ideas to maybe get you thinking.
That's a hard one because IMO there is a point where it just does not make sense to stop and another not to go beyond.
You need:
block filler that's $75
Injector o-rings set from IH $75
OEM head gasket set $250
Here is what I would given that. I am just thinking out loud hear: You already have the replacement engine correct? Why not pick up one of Matt's cams. That is a great addition at the level you are at with air and fuel. Also a good enough reason to pull the front cover IMO. Then weld the cam gear on. Take what is left maybe $600, since you have the heads off already, have the heads just lightly worked. Little bowl work and a polish. This is a street truck. Given that IMO for head flow you should not be looking as much trying to increase the volume of flow as much as trying to increase the flow velocity and how smooth if flows.
The fill will help with keeping things stiff and help hold those torque levels. The cam and head work will hopefully work with some synergy in their effects. See how much timing you are really seeing from your tunes. IMO you want the very least amount of SOI timing it takes to meet your power goal and to meet it at the highest RPM peak with the broadest power band. The cam and head work should help there. That will allow lower TQ peaks for the same amount of power which means less CP. The other thing get it live tuned and see about maybe having it logged with a CP tester so you can really be sure of timing and peaks of the combustion events you are looking at as well as cylinder to cylinder balance.
Hopefully all of this will allow you to keep a 600 HP ceiling but lower the actual TQ peak by being able to extend it. All of this together should give you a really good chance of keeping this thing together yet enjoy all the power it produces.
Anyways just voicing some ideas to maybe get you thinking.
Dieselboy.
New member
Chris I was in your shoes, but with no savings and minor mods. I went to town with everything except the bottom end.
Nobody has enough money to do it right the first time, but everybody has enough money to do it twice.. Words to LIVE by !
Billet rods and never worry again. Spend 4k on the bottom end. I wish I did cause Id spray the piss out of it.
The heck with just a cam, buy a set of pistons, do some bowl work. Bore it, line hone the mains. ARP main studs, and a set of rods. And is probably right around the 4k ish mark.
Nobody has enough money to do it right the first time, but everybody has enough money to do it twice.. Words to LIVE by !
Billet rods and never worry again. Spend 4k on the bottom end. I wish I did cause Id spray the piss out of it.
The heck with just a cam, buy a set of pistons, do some bowl work. Bore it, line hone the mains. ARP main studs, and a set of rods. And is probably right around the 4k ish mark.
PowerstrokeJunkie
Active member
Get a running good condition engine with good compression, put your existing head studs and springs in it, put the SOB back in the truck and get your truck running again, take a couple degrees of timing out so the chances of this happening are greatly reduced. JMO.
I think it would be good to know just how much timing its running and then decide how much to take out of it, maybe I am wrong on this though.
The heads are already off so there is no reason not to do a partial block fill. Its got to be the cheapest thing you can possible do. With the motor out again its no big deal to pull the front cover so why not check the cam for wear end play etc and weld the gear. Check the LPOP area for wear. Replace the LPOP if needed as well the front cover if its so needed. You could then call it a day and your costs would be minimal. Go another step and add in a upgraded cam. Or go another step and add in some head work.
Point being you can do those things without touching the short block and getting into the guts /parts and machining costs of doing that. Anything beyond the above and you are at the point of jumping into a full build.
The heads are already off so there is no reason not to do a partial block fill. Its got to be the cheapest thing you can possible do. With the motor out again its no big deal to pull the front cover so why not check the cam for wear end play etc and weld the gear. Check the LPOP area for wear. Replace the LPOP if needed as well the front cover if its so needed. You could then call it a day and your costs would be minimal. Go another step and add in a upgraded cam. Or go another step and add in some head work.
Point being you can do those things without touching the short block and getting into the guts /parts and machining costs of doing that. Anything beyond the above and you are at the point of jumping into a full build.
UNLIMITED_DIESEL
Member
:whs:
Do not waste your time filling it and all the crazy sh!t. Its not worth it if you are not going to do the whole build correctly. I can tell you that we just filled a couple blocks and they need to be honed with torque plates to get back to factory piston to wall clearance. Hard Blok will shrink your cylinder wall tolerances and then you will be scuffing piston skirts without the proper machine work.
You should also be thinking main studs and girdle at the HP level, however unless you are going to tear it all down, torque the studs and girdle and have it line honed, you are again wasting your time.
Find a good used engine with good compression. Take the oil pan off and check a few bearings. Take the front cover off and weld the cam gear, the cam does not require removal for this... Its a little redneck and I don't normally recommend it, but you can do it in the block. Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. Reinstall timing cover and oil pan, install head studs, valve springs, and pushrods, and reinstall in the truck.
It might last, it might not, but if you are not going to tear it down and rebuild it correctly then that is the gamble that you're going to have to take. Its just not worth doing some things and not others when you are looking at that kind of power level and reliability.
Just my .02 cents
Well there you go two recommendation from guys with far more experience than I telling you otherwise. I suggest you listen to them. LOL
I would have never guessed that hard block actually expanded and with such force as to flex cylinder walls inward measurable amounts. I wonder how many built motors have been screwed up by doing the fill post machining work given this effect.
I would have never guessed that hard block actually expanded and with such force as to flex cylinder walls inward measurable amounts. I wonder how many built motors have been screwed up by doing the fill post machining work given this effect.
vanderchevy18
New member
I have another week to decide what I'm going to do but I'm leaning toward doing exactly what Nate and psj said. I mean I drove the living crap out of this thing trying to blow it for the last 12k miles. I have another good motor setting on the stand ready to go in. Its not like its that big of a deal to me. I can yank one out and stick in the other one in a day. Now that I'll have a toy for the track I won't be beating on this one. To be honest it'll probably get stuck in the stock position and never go past half throttle. That's the truth of the matter. Stock block the sequel it is!
Groomzybanshee
New member
Are you still running the Same tunes I used to ???
vanderchevy18
New member
Basically. I got a few different tunes but I liked those best.
Charles
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Put a scope on that file in any truck with the same PCM code and verify the timing. If it's like 35+ at 2500 to 3000rpm then you needn't look any further to find the solution to your problem.
If that's the case, then grab a junkyard longblock with decent compression that you don't TOUCH.....and get the timing in check.
If that's the case, then grab a junkyard longblock with decent compression that you don't TOUCH.....and get the timing in check.
vanderchevy18
New member
I'll break it open and see what happened probably next week, but what if its the piston? What if the rod is fine and the piston cracked and grenades? Timing wouldn't be the issue. The stock rod limitation argument will be moot. What does a guy do to keep that from happening again? Just some bowl work on the pistons?
Groomzybanshee
New member
I don't think timming is the problem unless I just Have an extra storng bottom end I have over 40k with damn near the Exact same setup/ tune.
