bluedge8
Active member
I am going to be putting in my remote start that I took out of my old van and will put in my f250, the question is to solder or just use a splice technique? and what type of solder should be used?
to solder or not to solder???
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4tonGT40
New member
Biggreen96
New member
Splices fail, I solder all my electrical stuff for piece of mind .
bluedge8
Active member
sounds good, I had heard somewhere that it could affect resistance, but obviously it will not be a problem. Thanks guys.
91turbogsx
Active member
I personally crimp all my connections. I use uninsulated crimp connectors and use a OE style crimping tool (a must.) Then I usually heat shrink the connection after crimping.
IMO a proper crimp is better than soldering.
IMO a proper crimp is better than soldering.
DcMoore
Member
What is the OE style crimp tool you speak of?
91turbogsx
Active member
If you use this properly and seal your connections it will never fail. Peel apart a OEM harness sometime. You won't find solder.
I dealt with wiring harnesses for 25 years as an electrical engineer and a crimped connection is not as good as a soldered one.. I'm not looking for a pissing match here.. A properly soldered heat shrinked connection will last many more years than any crimp.. It is essential in something such as a vehicle that is exposed to various temperatures.. I'm not saying that crimps don't work.. I'm saying if someone is going to keep there vehicle for a long period of time, solder is the way to go..
If you consider what a crimp is accually doing, (mashing two wires together) and possibly not allways getting each strand connected.. Properly soldering two wires together they become one.. I have seen many times were crimped wired connections will cause an electrical device to fail due to low voltage..
Tom S
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I vary the technique depending on the application and if it is inside or outside the vehicle. For crimp splice connections I use the ones combined with heatshrink and adhesive. I have had very good success with those. I also still like solder and heatshrink connections.
Worstenemy453
New member
I guess based on replies, mine is going to be over kill, but i usually solder and crimp my connections, and then heat shrink. If one connection fails i always have anyother connection there ready.
And yes, in essence a solder joint will increase resistance but for the normal things i do ( stereos, lights, other 12 volt electronics ) that small resistance rise doesnt effect me.
For the record, in all my 4 gauges and 1/0 power wire connections, i only crimp. I have drawn over 400 amps through a single piece of 1/0 with no solder on the terminals without failures, and my connection stayed like that until i sold the truck and pulled it all out.
And yes, in essence a solder joint will increase resistance but for the normal things i do ( stereos, lights, other 12 volt electronics ) that small resistance rise doesnt effect me.
For the record, in all my 4 gauges and 1/0 power wire connections, i only crimp. I have drawn over 400 amps through a single piece of 1/0 with no solder on the terminals without failures, and my connection stayed like that until i sold the truck and pulled it all out.
Hopefully this does not start a pissing match. There is a lot of debate about which is better but what is most agreed upon is that a properly crimped connection is stronger. For any automotive work, a well crimped connection will work just fine. If you wanted to crimp and solder, even better. Me personally, I like to solder any audio connections. I also always try to solder any non vehicle electronics.
No pissing match here.. My posts are my personal opinion and from my own experience..
SoCalPSD
New member
For me it all depends really, with stereo and signal wires for gauges and what not ill strip wires twist em together tight fold it over and shrink wrap it twice with the second layer being longer than the first. Reason for that is I actually tested a signal wire from an old sub that I had installed by a shop that's been in business for a very long time and I measured half a ohm of resistance in the solder joint, big deal? No not really but im weird like that. But when it comes to anything under the hood or that's on the outside of the truck I solder and I use shrink wrap from an electrical supply house that has some sort of hard gel inside it. Thats suppose to seal when the shrink wrap shrinks. It basically oozes out as it shrinks and then its tight and as it was described to me basically as a sealer to keep things from rusting/corroding/oxidizing from the weather.
Fat fingered from the phone-Corey
Fat fingered from the phone-Corey
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91turbogsx
Active member
This is purely debate. There really isn't a right or wrong between the two.
Let's face it solder is hot. Even with a heat sink, solder may seep into areas beyond the intended joint or may cause damage to adjacent wires and components. Solder may trap moisture that eventually may corrode a connection from within. Too much solder may reduce the electrical conductivity of the stranded wires. Too little solder may cause the joint to fail. A soldered connection will be less flexible than the original stranded wire, and may weaken over time due to vibration. A soldered connection is permanent and cannot conveniently be disconnected.
Whereas crimp connections are inexpensive, make a secure mechanical connection, retain the flexibility and electrical conductivity of the wires to which they are crimped, are resistant to vibration, allow for visual inspection, do not damage adjacent wires or circuits. A proper crimp “cold welds” the wires to the connector. A weld is stronger than solder.
And to the guys that crimp AND solder if the crimp was done poorly, solder won't save it. And if the crimp was done properly, solder is unnecessary. In fact, soldering a crimped terminal may weaken the connection, may reduce electrical conductivity, and may damage the terminal. You should not solder a crimp terminal.
Again purely debate. Not a pissing match. They are both effective yet have different pros and cons. As long as one or the other is done properly you should be fine. Crimping is my preferred method that is all.
Let's face it solder is hot. Even with a heat sink, solder may seep into areas beyond the intended joint or may cause damage to adjacent wires and components. Solder may trap moisture that eventually may corrode a connection from within. Too much solder may reduce the electrical conductivity of the stranded wires. Too little solder may cause the joint to fail. A soldered connection will be less flexible than the original stranded wire, and may weaken over time due to vibration. A soldered connection is permanent and cannot conveniently be disconnected.
Whereas crimp connections are inexpensive, make a secure mechanical connection, retain the flexibility and electrical conductivity of the wires to which they are crimped, are resistant to vibration, allow for visual inspection, do not damage adjacent wires or circuits. A proper crimp “cold welds” the wires to the connector. A weld is stronger than solder.
And to the guys that crimp AND solder if the crimp was done poorly, solder won't save it. And if the crimp was done properly, solder is unnecessary. In fact, soldering a crimped terminal may weaken the connection, may reduce electrical conductivity, and may damage the terminal. You should not solder a crimp terminal.
Again purely debate. Not a pissing match. They are both effective yet have different pros and cons. As long as one or the other is done properly you should be fine. Crimping is my preferred method that is all.
cowboy_dan
Member
I've done it both ways, and had very good results both ways when I take the time to do it right. If I just hurry up and do a sloppy job, they both fail pretty quickly.
I had a friend in college that refused to use crimp connectors because they always came apart on him. I told him it was because he wasn't crimping tight enough. We argued back and forth for a while, then I crimped a spade connector onto a wire, handed him the crimping tool, wire, and another connector and told him to crimp it on.
He did.
Then I clamped his connector in the vise, and had him jerk his wire out with a pair of pliers.
Turned the wire around and clamped my connector in the vise, and he spent the next 5 minutes trying as hard as he could to pull/jerk/yank the wire out of the connector that I crimped.
I took the pliers and couldn't get the wires to come out of my crimp either.
Needless to say, he conceded that he wasn't crimping tight enough.
For the wiring harness' we put on machines at work, they're some sort of glue/solder that is crimped without a ferrule, and covered with a flexible encapsulation. If it's done right, you'll break the wires on either end of the splice before you break the joint. Believe me, I've tried.
I had a friend in college that refused to use crimp connectors because they always came apart on him. I told him it was because he wasn't crimping tight enough. We argued back and forth for a while, then I crimped a spade connector onto a wire, handed him the crimping tool, wire, and another connector and told him to crimp it on.
He did.
Then I clamped his connector in the vise, and had him jerk his wire out with a pair of pliers.
Turned the wire around and clamped my connector in the vise, and he spent the next 5 minutes trying as hard as he could to pull/jerk/yank the wire out of the connector that I crimped.
I took the pliers and couldn't get the wires to come out of my crimp either.
Needless to say, he conceded that he wasn't crimping tight enough.
For the wiring harness' we put on machines at work, they're some sort of glue/solder that is crimped without a ferrule, and covered with a flexible encapsulation. If it's done right, you'll break the wires on either end of the splice before you break the joint. Believe me, I've tried.
bluedge8
Active member
cool discussion guys, two more questions:
when people say crimp, what style are you using when you are "tapping" one wire onto a continuous wire, (ie: installing remote start, just tapping into the harness as needed").
and how long should it take to properly heat up a 12awg wire with a 30w iron? seems like mine was taking too long and I may go get a different one? thanks.
when people say crimp, what style are you using when you are "tapping" one wire onto a continuous wire, (ie: installing remote start, just tapping into the harness as needed").
and how long should it take to properly heat up a 12awg wire with a 30w iron? seems like mine was taking too long and I may go get a different one? thanks.
cowboy_dan
Member
If you're going to tap into a wire without cutting it, I only solder. For temporary installations, you can use those little splice connectors that you install with pliers, but for anything even close to permanent, solder it. Shrink wrap if you can, but otherwise a butt load of electrical tape.
Now, if you don't mind cutting the wire, use a butt splice and put the new wire in one end of the splice with one of the existing wire ends. Just make sure you crimp very tight, and in the middle of the crimping area.
30w may be a little small for a 12ga wire.
If you plan on doing much more soldering in the future, get a decent temp controlled iron. I have this 70W one: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/85 and absolutely love it.
You could probably get away with the analog 70W version, or the cheaper 50W version: http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10707
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bigbadford01
New member
I believe both ways work. But, DO NOT use scotch locks EVER.
bluedge8
Active member
thanks guys, I went out and bought the butane soldering Iron from Radio Shack and it was better but I still needed more heat (12ga. into 10ga.) so I ended up using the exhaust of the butane torch and it worked ok. I'd love that 70w digital but can't justify it right now. The remote start is in and operable, but the door locks aren't working just yet. Anyway have to go finish up installing the plow before I play with the locks. Thanks again.
