towing 18,000 pounds with a f250 SRW

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

It can be done... if you rig your truck right.

other than the details in my sig, I have done a few upgrades to my truck, in order to help carry the weight. My original plan, was to make my truck work for now, and buy an f350 or f450 DRW truck.

HOWEVER....... my truck performs wonderfully! so, i night just keep her rolling like this.

I have a Heartland Cyclone, 4012 fifth wheel. 40 foot long. 13,700 pounds dry and unloaded. 18,000 max gross weight. 3,700 pounds hitch weight. my truck does not sag one bit!

I started with a stock level f250. put BDS 2 inch level spacers up front. ditched the 2 inch blocks in the rear, and went with 5 inch blocks. this makes for a SLIGHT rake. 1 inch is all, barely noticeable. Then, Helwig helped out.

Pro Series | Hellwig Products

this thing works, look at my pics. this supposedly adds 2500 pounds to your rig. what ever. but, it def helps carry some load. also, when not loaded down, it puts negative tension to your springs. so, when you slam on the brakes, you keep level, no more nose diving! also helps in the curves. not quite as good as a sway bar, but there is a noticeable difference in sway control.
pic # 1 is loaded, 16,600 pounds.
pic # 2 is same, just closer view, showing little to no sagging in the rear.
pic # 3 is rear, unloaded, tire to fender 12 3/4 inches
pic # 4 is front, tire to fender 12 inches
pic # 5 is rear, loaded, tire to fender 11 3/4 inches, with previously mentioned fifth wheel.

also, due to me having a short bed truck, i needed a hitch that wouldnt crash my cab.

Pullrite 18K SuperGlide 5th Wheel Towing Hitch PR-4400

this thing is FULLY AUTOMATIC ! no sliders, no rails to adjust, etc. it is not cheap though.....

also, i switched to 4.10 gears, up from 3.55. with the 4.10s, at 60 mph, the TC locks, and does not downshift on hills. steep hills. rolling through viginia, on state highways kind of hills. then, in the super slab, 65 mph, cruise control, 2100 RPM all day, and i got 11 MPG (hand calculated)

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

forgot the pics

 

[Shootingstar]

You should be good. just check your rear axle payload compared to your hitch weight.

I pull a similar trailer on a F350 SRW and have no problems. carry a extra spare and service your rear axle often, the extra load on bearing can cause sudden death.

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

You should be good. just check your rear axle payload compared to your hitch weight.

I pull a similar trailer on a F350 SRW and have no problems. carry a extra spare and service your rear axle often, the extra load on bearing can cause sudden death.

yup, i put two spares in the trailer. saves almost 100 pounds on the truck weight, and i have been in the military long enough to believe that when it comes to spares, "two is one, and one is none..." lol!

and so far i have only pulled one trip, about 400 miles. but def plan on draining the rear often. only a few quarts, and some time.... too easy.

I still plan on getting a DRW truck, prob spring/summer time. but, I am pretty confident that I dont need it...

corb

 

[Jake]

Our horse trailer is about 18k fully loaded and we tow with our 00 F350 SRW with no issues. I have been thinking about a dually convert to have the extra pair of tires back there.

 

[dmd]

Only problem may be your insurance and maybe legal issues if you have
an accident. That would be my worry.

 

[tbsimmons]

The reason all of you think that a SRW is fine because either it is in your head or you have never pulled with a dually. I sold a 04 F350 SRW that did not have a stock engine or suspension, truck didnt sag at all. The truck held the weight and had the power to pull it. But going into corners, wind blowing, etc. I needed a bigger truck. Pulled the trailer 3 times. Once you go to a dually you wont tow with a SRW again.
I have a 3912 Cyclone. Same weight. These things are pigs with a lot of pin weight. I bet more than the 3700 when you are loaded. The topper is you are way over loaded. Truck and tires if you put it on a scale.

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

The reason all of you think that a SRW is fine because either it is in your head or you have never pulled with a dually. I sold a 04 F350 SRW that did not have a stock engine or suspension, truck didnt sag at all. The truck held the weight and had the power to pull it. But going into corners, wind blowing, etc. I needed a bigger truck. Pulled the trailer 3 times. Once you go to a dually you wont tow with a SRW again.
I have a 3912 Cyclone. Same weight. These things are pigs with a lot of pin weight. I bet more than the 3700 when you are loaded. The topper is you are way over loaded. Truck and tires if you put it on a scale.

I have pulled with a dually. never a fifth wheel, but around horse farms, heavy loads of hay, with a gooseneck. way heavier than i am pulling now. what i was doing back then was not legal. on a class c license, i grossed over 30,000, a few times a week. we never paid attention to it. now, having a ceiling of 26,000, I do not plan to come close to that. 8700 pound truck, and pulling up to 17,000 (which i wont go over) is well enough below max gross combined on my class c.

I have my THer loaded right now, at 16,600. pulls easy, no sway, no sag, even when i turn. and, coincidentally, the pin weight lightened up once it was loaded. how? all the weight of my toys, two harley davidson road kings, 800 pounds each, plus my sidecar rig, at 650 pounds, loads in the back, behind the triple axles, thus causing the weight to tip to the rear, just a little. as my truck weight dropped from 12,100 down to 11,800.... so yes, i am over the weight ratings for my rig. but only by a few pounds. the axle ratings are 5600 front, and 6100 rear.

is it better, or easier, and not as harsh on your rig, to pull with a DRW truck? YES. no doubt about it. however, legally, and following the manufacturers recommended weight ratings, it can be done, safely, and legally, with a SRW rig. and, it is easier on the driver, and equipment if you put pieces on your rig to help handle that weight.

that being said, i still plan on buying a DRW f350 to be my designated puller for my THer. but, my rig will get it to FL next week, and it wont move more than a few miles a month until i get my dually.

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

one other thing that i will say, as far as lesson learned, is this: keep the stock right height, and lift the hitch.

i lifted the back end of my truck up 3 inches by using 5 inch blocks, instead of the factory 2 inch blocks. the THer sits perfectly flat. but now my hitch touches the bed rails at full 90 lock on uneven terrain....

when i do get the f350 dually, i will make sure that it sits lower than my current f250's ride height, and put a lift bar under the hitch. the same hitch i have, plus 3 inch higher hitch height, will be the perfect level height that i have now, but the arm will have the needed clearance to not contact anything.... reese makes a 3 inch lift bar for its 5th wheel hitches. i think that it attaches to the standard rail mounts.

it would def be easier to learn from others mistakes on this one, as i am not about to lower my truck..... lol!

corb

 

[tbsimmons]

It is your hitch. My brother ran into that when he had a shortbed also. The reason is watch the hitch when you turn and it slides. I would not lift that hitch with the pin weight. That is a lot of torque added to the pins. I just wouldnt go 90 with a short bed. I dont go 90 with a long bed. It is really hard on a triple axle.

He went from a 06 F250 with non-stock suspension to an 08 450 also. Reason was the same as mine. Mine had more done to it performance and suspension.
Mine was lifted some. 2" only in the rear. I had 4" lift 1-ton springs made for the rear and changed the 4" blocks for 2" blocks. So I lifted the rear 2". Had 35's on it. Made air bag brackets for it. So I could pretty much load anything I wanted in the bed and it sat level with minimal air. For comparison I only moved the hitch up one notch when I got the dually.

I know what you are saying about what goes in the back takes off the pin weight.

I dont see how you have no sway, your hitch does not give side to side. I can feel mine some with the dually and mine moves side to side about 2 inches each way. The SRW was much worse.

It has nothing to do with 26000# and staying under for a license. It is to me like pulling 10,000 with a half ton. 3/4 tons should have never been rated to tow anything close to what they say they can, just like I would never tow 10,000 with a half ton. I towed a 3/4 ton dodge for a buddy today on my car trailer. "Legally" I could have pulled it with a SRW, much less a half ton. I cant imagine either one. Tail wagging the dog. To me it is safety of me and what I have in the cab. I know a lot of people do it everyday. Most of my buddies do it with the same reasons you do. My truck says it can tow this. For legality I can only have about 4000 in the bed of my truck for total GVRW. Yes it is that heavy.

You never said what your rear tire weight was, max load is around 3200 or so per tire. So with your trailer weight off the truck means the back of your truck is only in 2700 range stock from just the tires. If you go off of the 6100 for the truck, then the ass end only is 2400.

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

It is your hitch. My brother ran into that when he had a shortbed also. The reason is watch the hitch when you turn and it slides. I would not lift that hitch with the pin weight. That is a lot of torque added to the pins. I just wouldnt go 90 with a short bed. I dont go 90 with a long bed. It is really hard on a triple axle.

He went from a 06 F250 with non-stock suspension to an 08 450 also. Reason was the same as mine. Mine had more done to it performance and suspension.
Mine was lifted some. 2" only in the rear. I had 4" lift 1-ton springs made for the rear and changed the 4" blocks for 2" blocks. So I lifted the rear 2". Had 35's on it. Made air bag brackets for it. So I could pretty much load anything I wanted in the bed and it sat level with minimal air. For comparison I only moved the hitch up one notch when I got the dually.

I know what you are saying about what goes in the back takes off the pin weight.

I dont see how you have no sway, your hitch does not give side to side. I can feel mine some with the dually and mine moves side to side about 2 inches each way. The SRW was much worse.

It has nothing to do with 26000# and staying under for a license. It is to me like pulling 10,000 with a half ton. 3/4 tons should have never been rated to tow anything close to what they say they can, just like I would never tow 10,000 with a half ton. I towed a 3/4 ton dodge for a buddy today on my car trailer. "Legally" I could have pulled it with a SRW, much less a half ton. I cant imagine either one. Tail wagging the dog. To me it is safety of me and what I have in the cab. I know a lot of people do it everyday. Most of my buddies do it with the same reasons you do. My truck says it can tow this. For legality I can only have about 4000 in the bed of my truck for total GVRW. Yes it is that heavy.

You never said what your rear tire weight was, max load is around 3200 or so per tire. So with your trailer weight off the truck means the back of your truck is only in 2700 range stock from just the tires. If you go off of the 6100 for the truck, then the ass end only is 2400.

well, the helwig springs that i use, help a ton with the sway. with the 10,000 pound bumper tow trailer, i still sway all over the place. horribly so. with the much heavier fifth wheel, i have none. even when i run a dually, i will still use these springs on it.

and i switched the factory tires. still factory size, but nitto terra grappler, 275/65 20. rated for 3750 each. that is why i bought them. they look better than factory, and the weight rating is higher. the tires in my sig, are still on the garage floor of my fifth wheel. they are rated at 3195 each, and not enough for what i am towing. they will go on, once i get my THer to Florida.

 

[tbsimmons]

I still dont see it. Your spring pack cant be heavier than I had on SRW much less the 450. With no hitch give everything the trailer does will transfer to the truck. Oh Well.
If the tow behind is swaying a lot move the weight. Too much or too little tongue weight will cause that. Good luck to your towing to Florida.

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

I still dont see it. Your spring pack cant be heavier than I had on SRW much less the 450. With no hitch give everything the trailer does will transfer to the truck. Oh Well.
If the tow behind is swaying a lot move the weight. Too much or too little tongue weight will cause that. Good luck to your towing to Florida.

the tow behind does it empty, loaded with a car, or loaded with all my household goods, like it is now. 26 foot, tandem axle, V nose, car hauler. it is only about 9,000 lbs now. 8600 i think was my weight ticket. I really just dont like towing a tag a long any more. pain in my azz.

the spring packs, arent all that big. your 450 is probably way more heavy duty than mine, even with my helper springs. check them out, their shape, and way that you can adjust them to your needs, are what helps with sway. it puts reverse tension on the existing leaf spring. so, when your trailer weight shifts to (lets say) the right, and the truck would 1. have weight transfer to the right, and 2. the right spring would over load, and compress, (for instance) 2 inches, and 3. the left spring would extend, (for instance) 2 inches. so, now there is a 10 degree shift to the right, which will undoubtedly return with a healthy amount of force to the left, and push to maybe 8 degrees, then back to the right 6 degrees until it stabilizes.

I am not a physicist, nor do i study springs. however, i did fairly well in my physics class, and have at least a vague understanding of force, mass, inertia, and resistance, etc.... and these are not exact figures, from studies. just an illustration to demonstrate how they help out with sway control. and when i get my dually, these will go on there as well. not that it will need them to handle the weight, just to help control sway.

the reverse tension, accompanied with stronger overload springs, resist the sag on the right, containing it to 1 inch, and the reverse tension on the left spring, keeps from extending past 1 inch. so, your initial sway, is now negated to 5 degrees, with the same load, and same sharp turn, or maneuver.

I linked the helwig page to my initial post. check em out. I have had them for a while, and i bought them for 240 bucks. they are more than likely more than that now, maybe 350 or so. worth it. your 450 will def take more load than mine. no doubt about it. and even with your DRWs, the springs, that are stronger than mine, sort of work against you when your load leans to one side, for what ever reason.

same reasons that i wont use airbags. first, I had one explode with a load on the dually. we were way to heavy for the truck, and the airbags were a cheap way to help hold the weight. however, they only push upwards more. no load control. some people swear by them. hey, if it works for you, more power to ya. i wont touch them.

check these things out, maybe pick up a set. you dont really need more spring, as you have PLENTY already. but, these will no doubt help even your big rig.

also, like my OP, brake control when empty. no more nose diving. the azz end will not extend, due to the negative tension, and appear to be "bucking", and thus slamming your nose to the pavement. extremely hard braking, I still slide in level.

and thanks for the well wishes on my journey. hopefully, it wont come down to luck. i prefer prior planning, and staying alert. but, if it comes down to luck, I hope to have plenty of that as well! lol!

corb

 

[bad12jr]

I had 2000 lbs tongue weight on a bumper hitch on my 96. I have a 5 spring pack with 2 overloads and my back sagged 1 inch. I had 13000 pulling the 96 home with my 94 with 2 less springs on it and it just leveled it. If he's got it loaded right I don't see a problem so long as it'll stop

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

I had 2000 lbs tongue weight on a bumper hitch on my 96. I have a 5 spring pack with 2 overloads and my back sagged 1 inch. I had 13000 pulling the 96 home with my 94 with 2 less springs on it and it just leveled it. If he's got it loaded right I don't see a problem so long as it'll stop

very good brakes! lol! the brake controller works great, and i keep the gain up to 10.0. that thing is a must, for me.

 

[TANK'S 250]

yup...it's possible...I did it for 1000 miles, through the mountains of Tn, from Louisiana to Virginia...no sways bars



4.5" lift on 40" M16's

Did it with about 12,000 on 41" Iroks too.

 

[tbsimmons]

I had 2000 lbs tongue weight on a bumper hitch on my 96. I have a 5 spring pack with 2 overloads and my back sagged 1 inch. I had 13000 pulling the 96 home with my 94 with 2 less springs on it and it just leveled it. If he's got it loaded right I don't see a problem so long as it'll stop

If that was towards me I know this man!! No talking about the tow behind, talking about 4000# tongue weight of a toyhauler in a 3/4 ton bed. I just towed a 3/4 ton Dodge home for a buddy on my car trailer, most likely 10,000+.
No sways for me either. Load it right you will be fine.

 

[Denver]

Your truck can pull the weight but I would be worried about what you are legally able to tow. You have a rear axle rating of 6100. The pin weight is 3700. That leaves you with 2400lbs. The hitch probably weighs 300 and the rearend of the truck is probably 2600. Now your 500lbs over the rating of the rear axle. Your over loaded. Lets say your driving down the road and someone pulls out in front of you and causes and accident between you and them at their fault. Well if the police or hwy patrol come to the scene and decide to weigh your rig and it shows your over loaded then you'll be at fault and then from there it can go down hill with insurance and all the other legal issues. You may not me over the limit on the truck but it's possible to be over the limit on what your rear GWR is registered for. A SRW F250 rear is 6000-6200 and a SRW F350 is 6800-7300. Same trucks just the F350 is registered for more.

 

[Corb@CorbinShipping]

Whew! OK, time for some honesty....

The truck ran great. spring setup, brakes, tires, trailer.... all did great.

Rain, no sweating. slowed down to 10 under the posted limit, (60 mph in a 70, I95 south from NC to FL) safety first, and I had the utmost confidence in my abilities, and my rig. I still dont trust other drivers....

WIND..... holy sh*t! My trailer weighed in at 15,800 #s, and pulled me all over the place. I had a 20-40 mph west to east crosswind, for all over Florida! I slowed down to 50 mph for the 200 miles into FL I had to get to. Now, don't get me wrong, I know that a dually is the way to go as far as pulling heavy. Never denied that. And, in perfect conditions, my setup can and will do the job, without much effort. But, in nasty winds, you need to stay on your game, the entire road trip, which is nerve racking! lol! I was about to pull over and call it quits, until I hit I4 west, and got off the coast, and the wind became a tail wind, instead of a cross wind. The last 50 miles of my ride to Orlando was a piece of cake.

I was also worried about weight. Everything that people on here told me, and what I read matched up. My rear axle max weight is 6,100 lbs. So, I reconfigured my load a bit, and dropped my pin weight enough, to get my rear axle, loaded, to 5,800. Which was within the limits of my axle, wheels and tires. rims are 3,400 each, and tires are 3,195 each. I didnt get unloaded weights, as this was an after thought once I was going to get my weight tickets.

I am PCSing to FL, and moving myself, so the tickets are to prove how much I moved, and how much the Army is paying me to move.

So, I paid a few extra bones to get some extra weights. I know the truck is 8,700, and the empty trailer is 13,400. So, a combined weight of 24,500 leaves me with 15,800 for the trailer. But, I didn't get unloaded axle weights of the truck separately, so I don't know what the pin weight is.... But, I guess it is right at, or under 3,000.

I will definitely NOT pull this trailer on the highway for any distance again, until I get my dually! lol!

Edit... almost forgot. EGT! the H&S had me peaking at 1450 a few times up steeper grades, and smoked a lot. So, I ordered an SCT... I peaked at 1130 ONE TIME! 300 degree drop. And little to no smoke! The only thing that I changed was the tuner..... food for thought.....

 

[Steamfighter]

You can tow all you want with a SRW, but let your trailer decide to go on its own direction or a high speed flat or blow out on the truck or trailer with a heavy load. You will quickly learn about stability, or the lack of. Don't ask how I know.