Turbo bigger than a 38R?

nossliw · Dec 30, 2016

Fantastic advice!

KCTurbos · Dec 30, 2016

nossliw said:
In all of the threads on the KC 38 I have yet to find one of a compressor map for the unit. Can anyone assist and post. What is the peak flow currently advertised?

You will only find compressor maps from mult-million dollar companies... and they are not very useful for us diesel guys. They are more made for all the little honda civic guys who are trying to decide what turbo they should run. Other than that they are basically a useless advertising gimic. You will not see compressor maps from smaller companies like HTT, Fleece, Danville, Barder, KC Turbos, etc...

A compressor map is also useless if you don't know how to calculate all the numbers and plot those calculation on the compressor map. You have to take A LOT of info into account before a compressor map is useful.

Simply comparing peak flow numbers on a compressor map is about as useful as comparing two engines based solely on their displacement. More displacement means more power? Right?

For example... the box s366 and box GTP38r flow just about the same when looking at the compressor map. But they are completely different turbos.

We base our research more on real world feedback and dyno testing. All of which will be presented once we release the new turbos. We are not trying to make a turbo fit 100s of different applications like honda civics, corvettes, and diesel trucks... which is when a compressor map really becomes to necessary.

mikeeg02 · Dec 30, 2016

I'm glad you replied. I was going to say something very similar about your business size vs Garrett, Borg Warner, etc. But I didn't want it to come off as insulting. Smaller companies don't have the R&D budgets to pay to get compressor maps built.

KCTurbos · Dec 30, 2016

mikeeg02 said:
I'm glad you replied. I was going to say something very similar about your business size vs Garrett, Borg Warner, etc. But I didn't want it to come off as insulting. Smaller companies don't have the R&D budgets to pay to get compressor maps built.

I have actually had a few people approach me about providing me with compressor mapping services. I was very interested until I saw a few samples of what they had to provide. I had someone who made a compressor map for a stock 6.0 turbo and then a modified turbo.

I acted all impressed when they showed it to me... but the stock 6.0 compressor map that he was showing me was NOTHING LIKE the garret map. Not even close. It only had like a max 2.5 pressure ratio and did not flow the same either. At that point I decided not to pursue it anymore because it would cause more harm than good IMO.

mikeeg02 · Dec 30, 2016

I guess I hadn't even thought about a "lesser grade" of compressor map. I just look at the pretty ones Garrett and Borg provide.

And like you said, it's a lot of math and time to even plot where you think you'll be on the map itself. Then as an amateur you still can't be 100% in your calculations because IMO you need to make some "educated guesses" on VE per rpm on the engine youre using it on.

And the compressor map only tells the compressor side. I tried reading a turbine map for a while and gave up.

Sometimes it's best to learn from those who have tested and tried.

KCTurbos · Dec 30, 2016

mikeeg02 said:
I guess I hadn't even thought about a "lesser grade" of compressor map. I just look at the pretty ones Garrett and Borg provide.

And like you said, it's a lot of math and time to even plot where you think you'll be on the map itself. Then as an amateur you still can't be 100% in your calculations because IMO you need to make some "educated guesses" on VE per rpm on the engine youre using it on.

And the compressor map only tells the compressor side. I tried reading a turbine map for a while and gave up.

Sometimes it's best to learn from those who have tested and tried.

Exactly. You have to make a lot of educated guesses about Compressor efficiency and then work backwards. Then you need to know the VE of your motor? That is always a best guess. air/Fuel ratio? Intercooler efficiency? Pressure drop across the intercooler? Baro? Outside temp?

Then you need to know what your Boost is at certain rpms. Once you get your guesstimate flow rate then need to calculate your pressure ratio and plot ONE POINT. To see what your truck is actually doing you would have to plot a bunch of points and see where it falls on the compressor map. Even after all that you are playing guess and check to see where the truck falls on the graph.

mikeeg02 · Dec 30, 2016

Microsoft Excel and formulas definitely help with all that. But it's time consuming and still based off best guesses. :blitzed:

emev0l · Jan 3, 2017

KCTurbos said:
You will only find compressor maps from mult-million dollar companies... and they are not very useful for us diesel guys. They are more made for all the little honda civic guys who are trying to decide what turbo they should run. Other than that they are basically a useless advertising gimic. You will not see compressor maps from smaller companies like HTT, Fleece, Danville, Barder, KC Turbos, etc...

A compressor map is also useless if you don't know how to calculate all the numbers and plot those calculation on the compressor map. You have to take A LOT of info into account before a compressor map is useful.

Simply comparing peak flow numbers on a compressor map is about as useful as comparing two engines based solely on their displacement. More displacement means more power? Right?

For example... the box s366 and box GTP38r flow just about the same when looking at the compressor map. But they are completely different turbos.

We base our research more on real world feedback and dyno testing. All of which will be presented once we release the new turbos. We are not trying to make a turbo fit 100s of different applications like honda civics, corvettes, and diesel trucks... which is when a compressor map really becomes to necessary.

Do you personally have a 7.3 with a KC38r on it?

If so, what size injectors?

What did the truck dyno and what did it run in the 1/4?

mikeeg02 · Jan 3, 2017

Pretty sure he's mentioned before they have an in house dyno. But I'll let him reply.

He maye have options for that answer too. IE what injectors.

KCTurbos · Jan 3, 2017

We have had lots of track/dyno numbers, I am sure I have them in my email somewhere. There are so many different variations that I will post 3 that should give the best general idea.

These are obviously +or- about 15hp, and we all know how silly it is to compare simply dyno numbers with no other variables. Some dyno numbers read crazy high and I try to leave those out of the equation. Track numbers are also useless without knowing weight/elevation.

Stock injectors - 350hp
180/30 - 420
238/100 - 520hp (but I have a few guys in the 540-560hp range)

I have a few guys running 250/200 and 300/200 but no track/dyno numbers yet.

I had a hybrid KC66/KC38r on my truck right before I sold it. It was one of the middle experimental turbos along the way. I sold it to a friend for a smoking deal because we thought the tranny was going out on it. Ended up being a faulty boost fooler. He still has the truck and LOVES IT. Best truck he has ever had, boy do I regret selling it LOL... I have even tried buying it back a few times.

The main purpose of the KC38r was to take something that already works (like the garrett 38r) and then put our own mods and tweaks to it to make it even better. This next turbo design will be totally different.

biggdirty7.3 · Jan 6, 2017

hucorey said:
Really big.

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70mm compressor inducer at least

biggdirty7.3 · Jan 6, 2017

KCTurbos said:
We are trying to keep this on the down low so I can't share very much right now.

But I can tell you that these turbos will be COMPLETELY different than anything else out there when it comes to drop in turbos. It will not be just a "modified" gtp38r or "slightly larger" kc38r. We will offer a few different sizes. We think this is going to be huge, but I will wait for the testing to speak for itself. I will start up a thread once this project gets a little farther along.

Well I'm holding off on buying a t4 mount and s468 for my 250/200s until I see this #

ja_cain · Jan 6, 2017

KCTurbos said:
We have had lots of track/dyno numbers, I am sure I have them in my email somewhere. There are so many different variations that I will post 3 that should give the best general idea.

These are obviously +or- about 15hp, and we all know how silly it is to compare simply dyno numbers with no other variables. Some dyno numbers read crazy high and I try to leave those out of the equation. Track numbers are also useless without knowing weight/elevation.

Stock injectors - 350hp
180/30 - 420
238/100 - 520hp (but I have a few guys in the 540-560hp range)

I have a few guys running 250/200 and 300/200 but no track/dyno numbers yet.

I had a hybrid KC66/KC38r on my truck right before I sold it. It was one of the middle experimental turbos along the way. I sold it to a friend for a smoking deal because we thought the tranny was going out on it. Ended up being a faulty boost fooler. He still has the truck and LOVES IT. Best truck he has ever had, boy do I regret selling it LOL... I have even tried buying it back a few times.

The main purpose of the KC38r was to take something that already works (like the garrett 38r) and then put our own mods and tweaks to it to make it even better. This next turbo design will be totally different.

Are you you going to have a configuration of this new design that will be ok with stock injectors until they get upgraded?

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hucorey · Jan 6, 2017

biggdirty7.3 said:
70mm compressor inducer at least

Not necessarily

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hucorey · Jan 6, 2017

ja_cain said:
Are you you going to have a configuration of this new design that will be ok with stock injectors until they get upgraded?

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The largest one won't be a good match with stock injectors.

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HEUIGuy · Jan 18, 2017

David N said:
Send me one. I want to try it with these 350/200's that I run with my 38r and see if its actually any better.

Same, excited to see how my 350s like it

KM0PT · Jun 12, 2017

Any news on this? Just lost the turbo in my 02 the other day.

rosspulliam · Jun 12, 2017

It's available direct from KC Turbo and several vendors.

Spend yo' monies!

https://kcturbos.net/collections/7-3-powerstroke/products/kc-7-3-stage2-turbo?variant=17904531715

mikeeg02 · Jun 12, 2017

KM0PT said:
Any news on this? Just lost the turbo in my 02 the other day.

What size injectors are you running ?

KCTurbos · Jun 12, 2017

KM0PT said:
Any news on this? Just lost the turbo in my 02 the other day.

The brand new turbo designs are out and being tested... results are starting to come in. We are going to make a new thread when we get more data.

As long as testing continues to go well, we should have them up for sale sometime this summer.