Water/meth injection question

[Hoody]

I was looking into getting Snow Performance's Stage 2 water/meth injection setup, i've done alot of reading on it and i'm pretty much sold but my only questions I couldn't find a answer to is, when the tank runs out can you still run the truck? Will it go back to running like it did before water/meth till you fill the tank again? Or will it cause problems? Could you run just water whenever for cooler egt's and then a mix with methanol when you want more performance?

 

[pilot4life]

I was looking into getting Snow Performance's Stage 2 water/meth injection setup, i've done alot of reading on it and i'm pretty much sold but my only questions I couldn't find a answer to is, when the tank runs out can you still run the truck? Will it go back to running like it did before water/meth till you fill the tank again? Or will it cause problems? Could you run just water whenever for cooler egt's and then a mix with methanol when you want more performance?

Yes you can still run your truck. Just can't tow as hard.

It will go back to running like it did before

I just run water now for the cooling then when winter time rolls around I will add methanol to keep it from freezing.

You can run water/methanol or water whenever you want only issue is where you live during winter time and freezing water lines when running straight water.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

except whats not told about water/meth, is the excessive blowby you potentially get, after prolonged use.

the reason being, is that the water/meth is washing the oil off your cylinder walls.

the solution to that, is add a couple ounces of a water soluble cutting oil to your water tank, every time you add water to it.

random picture for reference.

i used water for years, and was told about the blowby, etc etc, and started adding the cutting oil, and watched the blowby go away. not entirely, as whatever damage was done, was done, but it improved alot from where it was.

and in the winter, i wouldn't worry bout finding meth, to be able to add yourself.

go to the gas station, and get some window washer fluid. simple, straight, no additive, plain jane, normal washer fluid, and use that, its usually good to around -20*. in the winter you shouldn't need to use the water, as its cold enough that ambient air is cooling everything for you, but you still want to use it to get the water out of the lines, kind of a flush. and i ran mine every now and then, just cuz i didn't like the idea of anything sitting stationary in lines in the middle of winter.

 

[pilot4life]

I don't understand how it washes? When waters injected are you saying the steam washes the oil film off the walls more than the rings squeezing it or the combustion stroke burning it?

 

[Tree Trimmer]

i dont understand the science, and occasional, short term use will probably never see a issue, or potential issue.

i used mine regularly, figured out i had a issue, that's what we decided it was.

i worked with several shops around here, well known in my area. i took them all out for supper one night, lol, and we had a meeting of the minds, so to speak. everyone around here knew that truck, and i'm well known around here, and they were all up for a free supper, and the 1.5 hour conversation about what could or could not be going on, and what some solutions were, as long as they didnt involve opening up the motor. i didnt have a problem with a bore scope, if needed, but i wasn't opening it up. unless it failed. which it didn't.

and knowing what i do now, i'd still put a water kit on it, without thinking twice about it, just now with the oil in the tank. the 7.3 just reacts well to water. my 6.4, not so much.

as i said, it only takes a few ounces per gallon. or i measured it with 3 cap fulls per gallon. the oil i used had a lid about like a anti-freeze jug lid.

oh, and another note, one you need to make sure of before you start using water.

do you have a high mineral content in your water? for instance, do you ever have to clean your faucets in your house? do you get a lime buildup anywhere, say bathroom? high iron content?

if so, you need to either filter the water before you use it, or go buy water. some people are fortunate enough to be able to use tap water, or from the hose outside. some are not, without having to filter it first.

in a perfect world, you would use distilled water. thats technically whats supposed to be used in it. if i had to filter the water, or buy it, i might not put a water kit on my truck, just cuz i have other things to do than mess around filtering water for my truck, or buying water.

 

[CurtisF]

I was looking into getting Snow Performance's Stage 2 water/meth injection setup, i've done alot of reading on it and i'm pretty much sold but my only questions I couldn't find a answer to is, when the tank runs out can you still run the truck? Will it go back to running like it did before water/meth till you fill the tank again? Or will it cause problems? Could you run just water whenever for cooler egt's and then a mix with methanol when you want more performance?

First question that should have been asked is: why do you even need water/meth in the first place?

Spraying just straight water works great for drag racing and sled pulls, where EGT's typically get very hot very quick.

But if you're daily driving and/or towing and your EGT's are out of control to the point that you need water, then you need to re-examine your truck and how you drive it. There is either: 1) something wrong with your truck, 2) you have the wrong combination of modifications, or 3) you're in the wrong tune if you have a chip or programmer.

Throwing water injection on is simply a band-aid to cover up one of those. Looking at your sig, you're running stock injectors. There's no need for water injection.

Then you have the methanol on top. Now you're introducing a fuel through the intake. Granted meth doesn't have the BTU's of say propane, but there is still the possibility of popping a motor. Why? Because once the meth enters the combustion chamber, you have zero control over when it ignites. Pre-detonation with too much meth at the wrong time can cause enough of a spike in cylinder pressure to do real damage to the motor. Where diesel fuel is injected at a precise moment for a perfect combustion, meth is already present in the cylinder long before and can ignite whenever the conditions are right. Those conditions can vary by temps, boost, RPM's, etc. There is no computer controlled precision.

Some folks might say you can get tuning for water/meth. No, tuning does NOT control water/meth at all. Tuning controls the diesel. You're simply backing off the timing of when the diesel fuel is injected, not when the water/meth reaches the combustion chamber.

I'm sure I'll get some flack for this, and there are many folks who will chime in saying they've run it for years. That's great, many people do. But at the very least understand these things:

1) Know the risks of water/meth or any power adders that put fuel in through the intake.

2) Don't use it to cover up a problem. Make sure your truck is in excellent mechanical condition.

 

[pilot4life]

My truck runs great. I just like being able to stay on it in the hard tunes. Just because you can run at 1200-1300 degrees doesn't mean I like the idea of running a machine at its limits. I don't know of many people who in their hottest tunes can keep it floored without monitoring EGT temps. My water gives me an added layer of protection.

 

[Magnum PD]

Is there any point in cooling down the hot air that comes directly out of the compressor housing? Grant it, it does go through the intercooler, but still very hot.

 

[bruce]

Cooling Mist is a better product than snow, but like curtis said, figure out the high egt problem before just masking the symptoms

 

[Tree Trimmer]

i had mine down to juuuuust at the high end of the safe range.

everything was all in working order, properly functioning, no mechanical problems.

my coolingmist set up i was able to have turn on based on a egt threshold, and would inject based on boost/egt.

so even if i was hard on it and had the boost, empty not loaded, it would not turn on till i hit a certain egt number.

 

[golfer]

i had mine down to juuuuust at the high end of the safe range.

everything was all in working order, properly functioning, no mechanical problems.

my coolingmist set up i was able to have turn on based on a egt threshold, and would inject based on boost/egt.

so even if i was hard on it and had the boost, empty not loaded, it would not turn on till i hit a certain egt number.

be careful triggering water inj based on boost pressure...

there are scenarios where you can have high EGT's and zero boost (end of drag strip pass, end of sled pull...end of stop light to stop light run)...when EGT's will still be high enough to inject water...

without the heat from the boost to evaporate the liquid...you risk a fair amount of engine damage. been there, done that.

IMO, trigger the water on boost (or boost AND EGT)...but not on EGT alone...unless the truck will never see a hard run and an instant 'lift' off the pedal (effectively dropping the boost to/near zero)...

 

[Tree Trimmer]

Yup. Totally agree. Third paragraph of my last post, I was injecting based on egt and boost.

The coolingmist setup I had let you Make, I think it was a 3d map, or sliding scale that used boost and egt. Even if you had the boost, it would not inject max water till egts maxed along with boost.

Whatever you set the thresholds at. XXX min and max boost, and XXX min and max egt.

 

[golfer]

Yup. Totally agree. Third paragraph of my last post, I was injecting based on egt and boost.

The coolingmist setup I had let you Make, I think it was a 3d map, or sliding scale that used boost and egt. Even if you had the boost, it would not inject max water till egts maxed along with boost.

Whatever you set the thresholds at. XXX min and max boost, and XXX min and max egt.

derr...reading fail...on my part.

good work.

 

[Tree Trimmer]

Even the smart ones have duh moments every now and then. LOL

 

[pilot4life]

without the heat from the boost to evaporate the liquid...you risk a fair amount of engine damage. been there, done that.

I thought cylinder pressures were high enough to boil the water to steam when the engine was in compression stroke?

 

[Tree Trimmer]

thats kinda true, but it entirely depends on how much water your injecting.

are you injecting this much, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-vvSRaD8FQ

or maybe this much, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtufcSuPP-8

but i was injecting much more than that, when it was at full tilt.

and you need the boost. serious engine damage can/will/highly likely to occur without it.

dave knows, been there, done that, as he said, lol.

 

[pilot4life]

Dunno the 3 jets I use equate to 21gph.

 

[golfer]

I thought cylinder pressures were high enough to boil the water to steam when the engine was in compression stroke?

depends on volume of water injected...

any system that moves enough water to be useful (in a modified 500+hp application)...is going to make some funny noises in the engine if you inject below 9-10psi boost.

*I* wouldn't run any street setup that came on before 12psi.

 

[pilot4life]

I am still swapping in and out jet sizes. Sounds like I need more water. My initial stage injects at 7psi second stage injects at 15psi. No knock or wierd sounds as of yet.
My primary jet is only a 175ml jet. Secondary is dual 625ml. I could probably jump up my primary size