NEED HELP, ADD DUAL FUEL NOW NO START?!

[gratitudefortoday]

Just had a shop install H&S dual fuel pump and low pressure fuel kit. Now they cannot even get my engine to turn over? They've hot wired the pump and proved it works. Checked the install. Reinstalled tunes. Has anyone experienced this? I'm in central PA. Anyone close that has Mini Max experience that may be able to help? It should have been a straight forward install but my truck has been sitting now for 2 days. Any helpful input would be greatly appreciated. :doh:

 

[6.0 Tech]

Did they say if the starter is clicking, or if it is trying toturn over? Or does it do nothing at all when the key is turned?

 

[mikeeg02]

Where at in central PA? Who did the work? I live in Milroy, work in Bellefonte. I get around some for work. I don't have mini max experience, but the starter won't turn the engine over?

 

[jcain]

It doesn't even try to turn over. I've sent my dual pump tunes and a reputable tuners dual pump tune. All kinds of dash lights etc. I'm firm in my belief they have the stock truck tune loaded and haven't a clue how to actually load a custom tune.

The reason I believe the above to be true is that they somehow (there's only one way to do it) made the minimaxx forget the mcc unlock code (truck had custom ******** tunes on it). Only way to do that is return truck to stock tune.

 

[Dzchey21]

They either left something unhooked or the ECM has gone into a no start mode. Basic troubleshooting at this point. Have them check codes. that will tell them if the right tune is in or not.

 

[bigrpowr]

definitely going to need tuning but that wouldnt stop the vehicle from starting .

 

[gratitudefortoday]

So after 3 days they tell me today that it's the tunes. I originally sent them Ty-rant ones, then just a base line one and they're saying those don't work! They said they can have a guy write a tune that'll start my truck but won't have it till Tues. I said, wtf, got in touch with @bigrpowr and he got me yet another set of tunes. Like @jcain said before it's not the tunes. Somehow this all started when they were loading the new ones but somehow erased my MCC code in the process. My gut says it's tied to that, whatever "that" is? I don't know how they could have done that and what it would take to fix it?

 

[gratitudefortoday]

Where at in central PA? Who did the work? I live in Milroy, work in Bellefonte. I get around some for work. I don't have mini max experience, but the starter won't turn the engine over?

My truck is in Muncy at Apple Hill. I work 12 hour night shifts 7 days a week so I have no time to work on it but I don't have the basic knowledge to even know how/where to start. Like was said it won't even turn over and the "low power" light is on the whole time.

 

[gratitudefortoday]

They either left something unhooked or the ECM has gone into a no start mode. Basic troubleshooting at this point. Have them check codes. that will tell them if the right tune is in or not.

They said they've talked with H&S about the install. Talked with Ty-rant and talked it through on the phone to verify the tunes were installed correctly. They've called other shops, other people have come in to look at it and the end result is them saying its the tunes? When they installed the new ones the first time they somehow erased my MCC code? I work on power plant technology but am clueless about diesel tech. Lol i'm kinda getting a crash course now though. So, what is this "no start mode" on the ECM? What could have been left unhooked?

 

[sootie]

Why not start with a blank pcm or reflash the current one and start again? (return the mini maxx to stock or it will be useless) maybe with a new mcc code? If the runes install properly, I can't see why it is an mcc code issue tho

 

[bigrpowr]

Why not start with a blank pcm or reflash the current one and start again? (return the mini maxx to stock or it will be useless) maybe with a new mcc code? If the runes install properly, I can't see why it is an mcc code issue tho

mcc codes are vin specific, it wont change . maybe the low pressure fuel system is causing this .

 

[CATDiezel]

I don't want to be a pessimist on this but it truly sounds like the ecm was bricked from either a low battery during install or cycled the key at the wrong time during install. It can happen and has happened.

As mentioned from the guru's above it would be a very good idea to return the truck to stock tune with the Maxx and then load a generic deIeted tune from the mini and go from there. Just to clear the hurdle of no crank first.

Lol... I learned how to say deIeted...

 

[gratitudefortoday]

mcc codes are vin specific, it wont change . maybe the low pressure fuel system is causing this .

They said they're getting fuel to where it should be? What're you thinking on the low pressure side might be causing the issue?

 

[gratitudefortoday]

I don't want to be a pessimist on this but it truly sounds like the ecm was bricked from either a low battery during install or cycled the key at the wrong time during install. It can happen and has happened.

As mentioned from the guru's above it would be a very good idea to return the truck to stock tune with the Maxx and then load a generic deIeted tune from the mini and go from there. Just to clear the hurdle of no crank first.

Lol... I learned how to say deIeted...

I am not following you? A stock tune with a generic dlete won't even begin to run the dual fuelers? Do you know how to determine if the ECM was destroyed?

 

[gratitudefortoday]

Why not start with a blank pcm or reflash the current one and start again? (return the mini maxx to stock or it will be useless) maybe with a new mcc code? If the runes install properly, I can't see why it is an mcc code issue tho

I'm not talking strictly MCC per se, but more along the lines of what they did that made the unlock code go away. Kinda like what Catdiesel was getting at. If they did, lets say, cycle the key or low battery during tune loads do you have any idea what literally would happen? Like truck won't do "this, this, or this"? Or will do "this" but def wont do "that"?

 

[CATDiezel]

I am not following you? A stock tune with a generic dlete won't even begin to run the dual fuelers? Do you know how to determine if the ECM was destroyed?

The ecm has NO CLUE there are two High pressure fuel pumps on board. The wiring is "supposed" to be paralleled for both pumps. Regardless of what codes will.be set from a stock tune... the purpose is to make the truck turn over. Once you've passed that hurdle then load the Canned deIeted tune. Then load the upgraded custom.tune.

This is strictly for process of elimination. Only so much help can be offered from a forum without truly seeing what's going on.

Does that make more sense? I didn't explain it too well prior.

One way to tell if the ecm was corrupted is to see if it will communicate with a scan tool such as auto enginuity or a Ford scan tool. No communication whatsoever with what should be a tune installed generally means it's bricked.

One question: is the mmaxx communicating with the truck?

There are other modules that are still alive. And the dash is a module of its own basically. But the engines ecm gives the cranking command and also fueling command. If the key if the key is actually sending a crank command to the ecm and nothing is happening then the ecm has a fault of itself. Even with many codes present generally a crank command is given. That's standard engineering practices across many manufacturers. However I'm not 100% certain of that for this specific model. We're getting deep now.

 

[gratitudefortoday]

The ecm has NO CLUE there are two High pressure fuel pumps on board. The wiring is "supposed" to be paralleled for both pumps. Regardless of what codes will.be set from a stock tune... the purpose is to make the truck turn over. Once you've passed that hurdle then load the Canned deIeted tune. Then load the upgraded custom.tune.

This is strictly for process of elimination. Only so much help can be offered from a forum without truly seeing what's going on.

Does that make more sense? I didn't explain it too well prior.

Yes, that step by step makes total sense. Lol, it's even harder to trouble shoot on a forum when I don't exactly know what's been done and not done to my truck. Thanks man.

 

[CATDiezel]

I edited the post you quoted. Go back and read the rest--added more thought.

 

[gratitudefortoday]

The ecm has NO CLUE there are two High pressure fuel pumps on board. The wiring is "supposed" to be paralleled for both pumps. Regardless of what codes will.be set from a stock tune... the purpose is to make the truck turn over. Once you've passed that hurdle then load the Canned deIeted tune. Then load the upgraded custom.tune.

This is strictly for process of elimination. Only so much help can be offered from a forum without truly seeing what's going on.

Does that make more sense? I didn't explain it too well prior.

One way to tell if the ecm was corrupted is to see if it will communicate with a scan tool such as auto enginuity or a Ford scan tool. No communication whatsoever with what should be a tune installed generally means it's bricked.

One question: is the mmaxx communicating with the truck?

There are other modules that are still alive. And the dash is a module of its own basically. But the engines ecm gives the cranking command and also fueling command. If the key if the key is actually sending a crank command to the ecm and nothing is happening then the ecm has a fault of itself. Even with many codes present generally a crank command is given. That's standard engineering practices across many manufacturers. However I'm not 100% certain of that for this specific model. We're getting deep now.

This! ^^^^ Is the knowledge I'm looking for. Thank you!

 

[CATDiezel]

This! ^^^^ Is the knowledge I'm looking for. Thank you!

Here is why it's called bricked. If the logic get stuck it corrupts the firmware in the drive generally. It almost turns into circular logic. The firmware now has no idea what to do with a stuck or corrupted tune and now will not communicate with anything. It's almost like a black hole. There are a SELECT few people that know how to unbrick and ecm. They generally wear a bow tie with a loose collared white button up shirt and have a bowl cut for a hair doo... lol... at that point it's literally cheaper to get a new ECM. THERE'S literally nothing a tuner can do at the point of a bricked ecm.

Let's hope this is not your case and something is communicating with the ecm.