6.0 injector stiction discussion
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greenthunder7.3
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i don't mean to bomb this thread with an off subject question but i am wondering can 7.3 injectors have this problem as well? i know that the 6.0 and 7.3 injectors have a completley different appearence but i don't know about internal differences.
Hopefully they've gotten better. My buddy just brought his 04 5.4 3v in to get the plugs changed and it ended up costing him almost $800. Some of the plugs pulled apart and they couldn't get them out etc... plus I think the plugs were like $50 a piece or some nonsense.
I don't know squat about 7.3 injectors, but no they don't have this problem from my understanding. Of course, adding lubrication to any HEUI injector is sure to help or at least be a good preventative measure.
weazel
New member
5.4 is a terrible motor to work on, just had one come in the shop the other day, and I will be honest, we bid the job low, the plugs where a pain in the a$$ (in the world of Omaha at least) and as you stated half of the coils fell apart when we pulled them out
Sent from in a ditch up side down and on fire with the wheels still spinning
This 6.2 doesn't look to bad..
weazel
New member
I actually have not seen under the hood of one of those yet
Sent from in a ditch up side down and on fire with the wheels still spinning
It's full of motor that's for sure but it doesn't look as bad as some that I have seen..
weazel
New member
I'm sure I'll see one sooner or later, for now I'll take your word for it
Sent from in a ditch up side down and on fire with the wheels still spinning
Sent from in a ditch up side down and on fire with the wheels still spinning
Bla bla bla, back to 6.0 injectors!
I've decided this is my approach right now:
My truck was VERY recently just rebuilt, aka, ARP studs, new gaskets, new oil cooler, the works. Tons of new parts on this thing. Anyways, I went with 15w-40 rotella, just for cost reasons. I only planned to run this oil for ~1k miles or so, then drain and put T6 back in. The idea with the short oil change is just because that's the way I've done it with every engine that's been apart and worked on. I believe I've got around 600-700 miles on this oil change currently. I'm thinking I'm going to add the AR2300 this weekend, and then continue to drive on this oil for ~1k miles, maybe more, maybe less. Depends if I notice anything with the AR2300 or not. At that point, I will drain that oil, put T6 in and nothing else. I will note the difference if any. Then I will add the AR9100 to the T6, and again, note any change. At some point after that, probably my next oil change, I will try T6 again by itself and see if issues come back at all, if they've cleared up, etc. Likely at that point I will hopefully be pretty familiar with the innards of the injectors (take my spare one apart) and try fixing the spool valves on my current units in the truck.
That is the tentative plan for now. Likely to change at any time. In fact, I may just get bored at some point and yank my injectors out and clean them all anyways. I see MPD sells the individual injector o-ring kits now, fairly cheap, so I will be ordering those soon.
I've decided this is my approach right now:
My truck was VERY recently just rebuilt, aka, ARP studs, new gaskets, new oil cooler, the works. Tons of new parts on this thing. Anyways, I went with 15w-40 rotella, just for cost reasons. I only planned to run this oil for ~1k miles or so, then drain and put T6 back in. The idea with the short oil change is just because that's the way I've done it with every engine that's been apart and worked on. I believe I've got around 600-700 miles on this oil change currently. I'm thinking I'm going to add the AR2300 this weekend, and then continue to drive on this oil for ~1k miles, maybe more, maybe less. Depends if I notice anything with the AR2300 or not. At that point, I will drain that oil, put T6 in and nothing else. I will note the difference if any. Then I will add the AR9100 to the T6, and again, note any change. At some point after that, probably my next oil change, I will try T6 again by itself and see if issues come back at all, if they've cleared up, etc. Likely at that point I will hopefully be pretty familiar with the innards of the injectors (take my spare one apart) and try fixing the spool valves on my current units in the truck.
That is the tentative plan for now. Likely to change at any time. In fact, I may just get bored at some point and yank my injectors out and clean them all anyways. I see MPD sells the individual injector o-ring kits now, fairly cheap, so I will be ordering those soon.
kyle43335
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I would like to start a discussion about 6.0 injectors, and more specifically, stiction and spool valves.
It seems anyone and everyone who has owned a 6.0 at some point, knows exactly what I'm talking about. Slow buzzing of injectors when you turn the key, rough starts, poor idles (sometimes actually a smooth idle, but just rough running once you get going). Waiting for the truck to warm up for 20 minutes in the driveway so you can take off down the road without it missing and bucking etc.
The things we have tried that we know sometimes help: Archoil AR9100, Rev-X, Hotshots secret, and similar other additives. While these additives are REALLY nice for the guy who doesn't feel like forking out the cash and the time for a new injector or 8, we know it's not exactly a fix. Some also run these as preventative maintenance. As far as I know, with all of these additives, when you drain the oil, your additive goes as well, so it must be run every oil change. I know some have said 2 bottles of rev-x the first time, and one bottle after... but I'm sure I'm not alone when I say 1 bottle just doesn't cut it for the most part.
We can also try and overcome a little bit of this with a 58V FICM as well. Most people running a 58V note that throttle response is improved. The idea is that extra voltage is pulling/pushing on the spool valve that much more and forcing it to move quicker. Makes sense in theory.
Of course, we can always just replace the injector. Is that a true fix? Well sure it is, but for how long? What's to say the new injector wont develop similar issues? We all know it likely will at some point. To me it seems silly to have to buy an entire new injector because the spool valve is sticking. I like to think most of the guys here are reasonably smart and capable people. I say it's time to come up with something to avoid injector replacement, and ideally improve on Ford's design of spool valves and their issues.
With that said, what exactly are the issues? Some seem to think it's spool valve wear. Others have noted upon dis-assembly that the spool valves seem to have some sort of a "coating" on them, like a build up of sorts. Ford says the stiction on the spool valves is actually the oil "clinging" to the spool valves and causing issues. Original strategies had the injectors buzz at shut down, to aid in "cleaning" the oil off of the spool valves and make start up easier. It was later found out that oil simply leaked back in and was still there regardless. Then they went to inductive heating! Ahhh! So the FICM basically applies power to the spool valve and "holds" it in position to simply heat up the spool valve and cause the oil to thin and drain off of the spool valve. This worked, in a sense, but we know it's hard on the electrical system, and the FICM as well.
I believe Jeremy, aka: lubeowner, has said previously that he has taken injectors apart and cleaned spool valves up with something similar to an emery cloth? Someone correct me if I'm wrong there... I know others have disagreed with this method. He claimed it worked like a charm, if I remember this right.
What about the shop using marvel mystery oil?http://powerstrokearmy.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28582&highlight=marvel+mystery Maybe instead of running the marvel in the engine like this (still a risk at this point IMO, just not enough data to support one way or the other), what if we took the injectors apart and simply cleaned up the spool valves? Maybe a combination of cleaning like power struck does, with some sort of solvent (outside of the truck!) and then some way to polish it up to prevent stiction as much as possible? What about a coating of some sort? We have some pretty incredible technologies now with materials and parts. We ceramic coat engine parts, Teflon coat piston skirts, etc. What about a low friction Teflon coating on the spool valve? Maybe not enough clearance. Ok, make a new spool valve slightly undersize and coat it to thickness???
Other in the marvel thread note the usage of ATF to clean injectors as well. I haven't heard much else about it, but another "option" I suppose.
My injector knowledge is limited at best at this point, but I'm planning on diving in head first in the coming months. This is a problem almost every 6.0 owner faces and it seems like we should be able to come up with a work-around to buying new injectors. Someone may jump in and just tell me this has already been thought about and isn't possible, that's fine too, we're all here to learn.
I'm just spit-balling here. Feel free to tell me I'm crazy, or just jump in on the discussion and add your thoughts. Nothing bad can come of simply discussing the issues and the obstacles at hand.
use 2000 grit wet sand paper. wet the paper with pb blaster, or wd-40. that works awesome...
oil quality is the biggest factor. wear, and varnish will come faster or slower depending on oil quality, and maintenance. one of the worst oils(and almost every customer i have uses it) is rotella. conventional or synthetic. the trucks that use this oil always have stiction or spool valve wear.
i recommend to everyone to stop using it. some do, some dont. the people that switch, see a difference.
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They were all saying 600 or 800 grit wet sanding....
WD40 would be a must. The way it sounds, it'd be pretty much impossible to damage the spool valve as it seems to be a DLC part. So it's just a quick 4 or 5 turns of the spool valve in the sand paper and it's good to go, just clean the "varnish" off of them without actually removing material from the spool valve.
WD40 would be a must. The way it sounds, it'd be pretty much impossible to damage the spool valve as it seems to be a DLC part. So it's just a quick 4 or 5 turns of the spool valve in the sand paper and it's good to go, just clean the "varnish" off of them without actually removing material from the spool valve.
Sorry for the derail man..
weazel
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04stroker
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I tell people the same thing about the oil? What do you recommend for a common easy to find oil for them? We have been using the Valvoline 15W-40 or 5W-40 and it seems to work much better than Rotella.
kyle43335
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Same thing. For the synthetic oil, people don't realize how hard the heui system is on oil. They want to run it to upwards of 10k +. I tell people run conventional oil 4k maybe 5 if you are not beating the fun out of the truck.
Dont run the Synthetic past 7k. Use the benefits of the synthetic but don't get carried away. Heui will still win in the end and bust up the oil..
Some old school people don't want to hear such rubbish though. They can't seem to open they're eyes and don't something different.
POWER-STRUCK
New member
you may want to try CROCUS cloth instead of sand paper or emery
http://www.shop3m.com/60070003177.html?WT.mc_ev=clickthrough&WT.mc_id=shop3m-AtoZ-Crocus-Cloth
http://www.shop3m.com/60070003177.html?WT.mc_ev=clickthrough&WT.mc_id=shop3m-AtoZ-Crocus-Cloth
jdeeg4276
Member
Well looking at the issue of stiction I believe that the real issue is from maintenance . From what I know I believe the oil is cooking in the engine and causing the injectors to stick. My mind set is maintenance will cure most engine issues and I've always used revx with oil changes and in most 7.3s I've always used Lucas. Most of my customers agree and have had great success with this and had no engine start start failures.
Like the spool valve tear down video. Great info if I ever need it. Would be willing to participate in any help I can give on the issue of tearing down and lubing spool.
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Like the spool valve tear down video. Great info if I ever need it. Would be willing to participate in any help I can give on the issue of tearing down and lubing spool.
Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Tapatalk 2
How so? And I know you meant lack of maintenance, but specifically what?
kyle43335
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running to long on a current oil change, usually with a chit grade/quality oil.
the oil breaks down, and burns. if you have torn engine down in the past, even before heui engine existed, you would prolly have noticed the same brown colored varnish inside the engine, on everything oil touches.
the difference being before heui, that varnish never hurt anything, because all the oil was used for was lubrication. now that same oil is being used to fire the injector.
my point is, lack of maintenance on the owners shoulders is nothing new. combine that with chit oil, and you now have stiction.
the hundreds of 6l and 7.3, and heui cats i have had open, i can directly see who does good maintenance, and who doesnt. the people that do good. the brown varnish color is near non existant. the people that dont. that brown varnish is very dark, and all over everything.
i hope i explained that clear enough???
