The Brad
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That's blasphemy!
Another T4 thread
- Thread starter The Brad
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That's blasphemy!
Swaan
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Lmao.
Thats like asking if anyone makes an adapter to put a e40d behind a 6.7 powerstroke.
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
yeah.. its hard on them.. although my dually has over 100k on a setup that has been ran to the max effort every day it was drove till I got the 6.7... 470hp out of 170/100s... you know it's tapped out!! lol
live life full throttle
god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
Mine stretched its legs last night. Its definitely fun. The guy in my welding class has a tuned lmm and he was shakin his head when i took him at a 45mph roll. Not by a lot but those trucks are light and quick. Mine is fairly heavy right now. There has to be 1500 lbs of structural steel tools and chokers in the bed and toolbox.
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
yeah, they ain't as badass as they are lead to be.
live life full throttle
god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
So true like the one here about his 38R being smokey and hot but had 200% hybrids running 3+ pulse width at 2800-3000 psi. That would be more than my gtx42 as thats 300+ cc of fuel of for most people with 200% emptying them.
If you can not get a tune with ANY turbo we use on the 7.3 to run clean with whatever injectors you have there is something wrong. Consider that you can cut PW enough to get a truck to idle. Think how little fuel that is. If you can do that you can certainly get it clean with a turbo. Hell you could get it to run smoke free without a turbo at all. It would be a dog comparatively but it could still be smoke free and low egts. Until you get into the 400% nozzle or dirty nozzles like the 100% you can get them to run what is called smoke free. Obviously you can get any diesel to smoke it you lug it just right but you get the idea.
I know there have been plenty of times I would have sworn up and down I had no boost leaks anywhere. Then I go and pressurize the system like Vref and damn if I would not find something once I got above 10 psi. If I could find an easy way to pressurize it up to 60 psi I would but its a PITA.
I recall way back when I got my Excursion. I checked the uppipes with a mirror looked everywhere. No signs of leaks at all. Then when I went to install a T4 kit the up pipes literally lifted right out they were that rusted. Explained why I was getting more of a haze than Matt @ GH thought I should have when he followed me to lunch.
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
lol.. exactly! I don't get why everyone says 100s are bad.. that is what I have and no issues.. many don't have issues.. lol
live life full throttle
god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
mikeeg02
New member
My 100% nozzles seem to be doing pretty well. And with my new turbo I can make a smoke free 15psi at 1,500 rpms. Thats also with ge@rhe@ds tuning.
The issues with the 100% were solely to do with how they made the nozzle port size which I am sure you know. Without a doubt there are some very clean running 100%. The issue is the variation. Still 100% 300% 400% they can all be made to run way cleaner and cooler than many people have even 30% a code running.
Fact is even 400% can idle clean and smooth yes yes it takes a good amount of custom tuning but still its doable is the point the turbo is not part of the equation at idle and its the smallest amount of fuel injected i.e the max resolution and its possible to be clean. Any doubter look at Mike Ontiveros (Blowby) truck idle videos. As for fuel ecomony from larger nozzles take a look at what Brian Belch was able to achieve with his 400% 1000+HP single turbo 4x4 setup.
Now am I saying run 400% on a DD, not at all. For me its a durability issue without going to larger billet nozzles. But look at this idle and this is during a emissions test
https://youtu.be/779VwKk5kQU
That was also a nice moderate HP tune just to show it can run in the same power range as say a stage II or small hybrid 438 hp 626tq that is some nice low CP at 626 ftlb
Here is a snippet point in time of commanded Mike posted for that tune and dyno run
RPMs - 3000
PW - 1.7
ICP - 2600
MFD - 52
Fact is even 400% can idle clean and smooth yes yes it takes a good amount of custom tuning but still its doable is the point the turbo is not part of the equation at idle and its the smallest amount of fuel injected i.e the max resolution and its possible to be clean. Any doubter look at Mike Ontiveros (Blowby) truck idle videos. As for fuel ecomony from larger nozzles take a look at what Brian Belch was able to achieve with his 400% 1000+HP single turbo 4x4 setup.
Now am I saying run 400% on a DD, not at all. For me its a durability issue without going to larger billet nozzles. But look at this idle and this is during a emissions test
https://youtu.be/779VwKk5kQU
That was also a nice moderate HP tune just to show it can run in the same power range as say a stage II or small hybrid 438 hp 626tq that is some nice low CP at 626 ftlb
Here is a snippet point in time of commanded Mike posted for that tune and dyno run
RPMs - 3000
PW - 1.7
ICP - 2600
MFD - 52
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
to me, that just seems like a lot of boost for 1500rpm.. like mentioned before, boost is a measurement of restriction.. so something is just wierd to me about that..
live life full throttle
god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
mikeeg02
New member
It is a lot of boost at 1,500 rpms, but the key here is its not hot (not above 1200*), and there's 0 smoke(for the californians). Im not sure its possible empty, well maybe if I found a steep enough grade but that much fuel with only truck weight and the truck will accelerate.
And while boost is ultimately a measure in restriction,(not the density of the charge) it is measured post compressor outlet of the turbo, and the heads are still what is causing the restriction, not the turbo. So I changed nothing between the turbo and the heads. And according to my compressor map, I am flowing more lb/min at ~17 psi (~2.2 PR), than the 38R does. Which is why its smoke free. More air. Unless theres something else I am misunderstanding.
EDIT: Combine that with a more efficient turbine side like I have, and you can achieve what I am achieving. Though Ill admit, I tried reading turbine maps, that hurt my head.
And while boost is ultimately a measure in restriction,(not the density of the charge) it is measured post compressor outlet of the turbo, and the heads are still what is causing the restriction, not the turbo. So I changed nothing between the turbo and the heads. And according to my compressor map, I am flowing more lb/min at ~17 psi (~2.2 PR), than the 38R does. Which is why its smoke free. More air. Unless theres something else I am misunderstanding.
EDIT: Combine that with a more efficient turbine side like I have, and you can achieve what I am achieving. Though Ill admit, I tried reading turbine maps, that hurt my head.
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gnxtc2
Active member
mikeeg02
New member
I had only done it for testing when I had the opportunity to, and dont intend on doing it regularly, in fact unless I am loaded the truck will accelerate in the same scenario.
It was done mostly to show spool up, and EGT characteristics, for those who may of wanted to know.
lincolnlocker
Well-known member
it does make sense that the map is showing more air flow but what I am asking is, why would it be boosting that high and flowing more air then a 38r that doesn't boost that high at that rpm.. to me, that is saying that the 38r isn't working as hard due to lower boost..
let's look at a stock turbo vs a 38r.. every single report from swapping to a 38r says that they see lower boost numbers but even at the lower boost numbers, the 38r is still out flowing the stocker and creating more hp.. even wot, the stocker is tapped out around 30ish psi and nothing good can come out of it at any higher numbers.. you Gaye a 38r at 30 psi and it will just laugh at the stocker..
that is why I don't see how 15 psi at 1500rpm is a good number..
live life full throttle
god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
let's look at a stock turbo vs a 38r.. every single report from swapping to a 38r says that they see lower boost numbers but even at the lower boost numbers, the 38r is still out flowing the stocker and creating more hp.. even wot, the stocker is tapped out around 30ish psi and nothing good can come out of it at any higher numbers.. you Gaye a 38r at 30 psi and it will just laugh at the stocker..
that is why I don't see how 15 psi at 1500rpm is a good number..
live life full throttle
god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
mikeeg02
New member
I think the answer to that is the compressor wheel being a 66/88 vs the stock 60/80 (IIRC) and retaining the same turbine side. Same exhaust side with a bigger compressor wheel, and BB to help with spool up. So I would expect with stock injectors that the stock turbo was capable of almost utilizing, the 38R in the same situation, same tuning could yield
Less peak boost. Much like with smaller injectors capable of making 35psi out a 364.5sxe I'd expect to see them with a 369sxe achieve less boost. Same exhaust setup, and not enough fuel to drive the compressor.
Unless the turbo changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine, the restriction in the heads is why boost pressure is created. The only difference between two turbos in the same situation, same conditions, same psi, is the density (or temperature at the same psi) of the charge. Which is directly related to lbs/min of air. I believe that's why turbos are rated in lbs/minute as opposed to cfm, because to calculate cfm, you need to know the engines VE at that rpm. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Being able to achieve smoke free 15psi at 1500 again was to demonstrate spool up characteristics. As many know,(and from what I've read) the old box 366 was a bit of a turd until you put a billet compressor wheel, and comp housing or whatever else you had to do to achieve decent spooling.
Less peak boost. Much like with smaller injectors capable of making 35psi out a 364.5sxe I'd expect to see them with a 369sxe achieve less boost. Same exhaust setup, and not enough fuel to drive the compressor.
Unless the turbo changes the volumetric efficiency of the engine, the restriction in the heads is why boost pressure is created. The only difference between two turbos in the same situation, same conditions, same psi, is the density (or temperature at the same psi) of the charge. Which is directly related to lbs/min of air. I believe that's why turbos are rated in lbs/minute as opposed to cfm, because to calculate cfm, you need to know the engines VE at that rpm. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Being able to achieve smoke free 15psi at 1500 again was to demonstrate spool up characteristics. As many know,(and from what I've read) the old box 366 was a bit of a turd until you put a billet compressor wheel, and comp housing or whatever else you had to do to achieve decent spooling.
The Brad
New member
Mike, you hit the nail on the head there. We all know you can spin a stocker past the choke line and make 30psi, but it makes a lot of heat. A pound of hot air has more volume than a pound of cold air. That makes comparing boost numbers pointless and is also why a 38r makes more HP per psi, it's not the boost, but the air density that matters. The SXE is another step in that direction, IT MOVES MORE AIR, and it does it with out creating more heat, so the air is denser. The whole 15psi at 1500 rpm just shows how well it spools and doesn't surge. My 38r surged below 2000rpm 'til I put the 11 blade in.
I finally got to do some towing from CA to AZ and couldn't stop grinning. I pulled a toy hauler with a Rhino, 3 quads, motorcycle and all of our other crap, probably only grossing 16-17k, but it didn't matter what tune I was in, it ran cool.
Back on the first page of this thread I posted a screen shot from a year ago pulling a hill at 23xx rpm, trying to hold speed while keeping egt at 1200. Boost was 17 IAT was 62* and MAT was 118*. I pulled the same hill tonight and tried to duplicate those conditions and take a pic. This time IAT was 53*, and MAT was 70*, and the EGTs were only 900.
Once I fill up, I'll calculate mileage.
I finally got to do some towing from CA to AZ and couldn't stop grinning. I pulled a toy hauler with a Rhino, 3 quads, motorcycle and all of our other crap, probably only grossing 16-17k, but it didn't matter what tune I was in, it ran cool.
Back on the first page of this thread I posted a screen shot from a year ago pulling a hill at 23xx rpm, trying to hold speed while keeping egt at 1200. Boost was 17 IAT was 62* and MAT was 118*. I pulled the same hill tonight and tried to duplicate those conditions and take a pic. This time IAT was 53*, and MAT was 70*, and the EGTs were only 900.
Once I fill up, I'll calculate mileage.
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ja_cain
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I was not aware of the MAT pid. That is helpful data. I don't think my CTS2 looks at that pid and I don't remember monitoring it when I was running torque (but maybe I did and forgot). I wonder what temp Mike's truck was running at while pulling that load. Also, if I bought one of those sxe turbos I would be very tempted to buy the speed sensor.
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lincolnlocker
Well-known member
none of that makes any sense go me other then pound for pound it should flow more.. 15psi at 1500 rpm is telling me it is working harder.. not easier..
live life full throttle
god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
live life full throttle
god bless america and the farmer who feeds your fat ass
ja_cain
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If the back pressure to boost pressure is 1 to 1 then that tells me that the turbo is a much more efficient turbo if loads and rpm are the same for both turbos. The 366sxe is capable of forcing more moles of air into the motor. The volumetric pump rate of the motor is much lower at 1500 rpm vs 2300 rpm. In other words the volume (or average volume the turbo sees when the intake valve is open) is fixed. This is assuming the post compressor temps arn't significantly higher than the 38r at the same load/rpm. That's why I think the MAT sensor is useful. Just look at the formula pv=nrt. The volume is fixed at a given rpm so it doesn't change. The change in moles and temperature of air have a direct relationship with pressure. We to have that MAT data so we can see if the compressor is blowing hot air.
Please ignore my comments as half the time I don't know what I'm talking about and I miss little fine details that make my understanding fall apart. Lol!
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Please ignore my comments as half the time I don't know what I'm talking about and I miss little fine details that make my understanding fall apart. Lol!
Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
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